Stop Blaming Specific Clippers -- This Is A Team Game

Granted, some Clippers are more valuable than others. But every player -- whether it is Jamal Crawford or Blake Griffin -- have off days. I play ball and sometimes you can't miss and other times you can't - as the saying goes -- hit the ocean from a boat. Whether it is me at the lowest level or BG at the highest, hoops is not chess. You do not have minutes to contemplate your move. You shoot, you hit or miss. And it is not from lack of effort.

When a top tier team loses, there are any number of factors that could have changed the outcome. A ref call here, two missed dagger threes there (like yesterday when we were up 13) and suddenly defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory.

It is very easy to second guess. But this is our team, this is our coach. Yes, they are not above criticism. But vitriol and hate towards a given player ("Jamal lost this game") really sucks.

The TEAM lost. We tried out best. We were without our leader.

It is time this cat chorus of harpies to STFU. Enjoy the games. Be thankful you have a great team.

And if you can do better, give Steve Ballmer a call.

I was with you until "It is time this cat chorus of harpies to STFU". That's not ok in my book, and suspect it is breaks the rules of this forum.

Well said, I agree with you completely! I tried to rep your post but for some reason it wouldn't let me tonight.

Comon now. There was a trail that just trashed Doc and the team beyond words for Game 2. I think it has been deleted. Realistically, the only way you can blame any player is if he does a Genobili and bricks two free throws that would have won the Championship against Miami. Short of that, who lost Game 2? Doc? The refs? Jamal? JJ? BG in the second half? Austin who was tripped? Matt who could have put the game away with a dagger three when we were up by thirteen?

My point is at this point, we are who we is. We have the best point guard in the NBA with hamstring issues. We rarely get calls. Yet we are still alive!

We are a TEAM now and we win as a team and lose as a team. If the refs steal games from us, they steal them from US -- THE TEAM!

As I said, criticism isn't unfair. I got on Doc for never giving Udoh a shot when Hawes tanked. Or taking out DJ when we could have put the game away. (Let him play with four fouls and see how he reacts.)

But to rag on Jamal as though he wants to give the game to Houston is just not being a fan. It is being a harpie.

And I stand by that. Period.

Yeah, if you look hard enough I'm sure each player has "lost" us games - but they happen, otherwise we'd be 82-0

I was as pissed as anyone after G2, a game we should have won and now we've given Houston a lifeline. They should be 0-2 down and virtually dead and buried.

Let's get behind the guys - we're still in a great position and after G2 of the other semi final who knows what is to come. We are where we've wanted to be all season.

Its one thing to talk about players being off. Its another thing to be annoyed at poor decision making or lack of effort. I don't mind if Crawford bricks shots but his constant chucking and inability to pass the ball is wearing on me. Not to mention he can't guard a garbage can. He has been horrible these playoffs and generally is bad in the playoffs.

It is not always a team loss. One player who is consistently sloppy can lose a game when everybody is perfect. One guy who doesn't care or who is lazy or has his own agenda. Ryan Gomes comes to mind. There are guys who are asked to do things that they can't. If this guy screws up and loses the game it isn't a team loss. The coach and/or the player lost it. Jamal chucks shots because he wants to. He knows how to pass the ball. He purposefully chooses not to. Baron singlehandedly tanked a whole season.

My point that a team is made up of individuals who may or may not work together for a common cause. There is a difference between Austin's "losing" the game where he got tripped and Ryan Gomes when he screwed an inbound. Austin did not lose the game. Gomes was inept, Austin is not. Gomes should not have been on the team.Gomes lost the game. The concern is not with a player occasionally screwing the pooch, it's a player who always screws the pooch.

Would we be better if Jamal chose to pass? Would we win more games? I don't know but if that is true he's singlehandedly hurting us. It's not a team loss. To be successful each player has to be able to carry his own weight and perform his assigned tasks. If this is true it's a team loss. If not, somebody lost it for us.

Obviously, when you have bad players on a team, they can lose a lot of games for you. But by the time you reach the second or third playoff round, the Gomes of the world do not get any run. After a close to hundred game shakedown cruise, you should have a TEAM. Each player -- even in an eight man rotation -- by now knows his role. And if one has a bad game, others pick him up. When the Lakers won against Doc 's Celtics, Kobe went something like 6/24. Did he lose the game? No, they won. AS A TEAM. They picked up the slack.

That is my point. By now, guys you can specifically blame for losses -- like Spencer Hawes -- get no run. The players generally leave it all on the floor. Like CP3 in Game 7. Did he win the game with that last shot? Technically, yes. But, in reality, as others had to shut down Patty Mills and Tim Duncan, the answer is NO -- it was a team victory.

At this point, our TEAM has HCA against the Rockettes.

And we should win this series, refs notwithstanding.

After a tough loss, passionate fans vent their frustration, express where we could improve or just come here to have an outlet to discuss the game. Everybody has an opinion but we all want the Clippers to flourish. Game 2 is over and done. On to Game 3 and as the Kia commercial says, "To Victory!"

I'm all for a kumbaya moment but this is a message board with fans who differ in opinions. Not to mention, we'll all have different thresholds of emotion. The term fan comes from the word, Fanatic. It's hard watching a game and witnessing individual, constant, and costly mistakes. A game thread is to discuss a game in real time and that includes praising good play, and pointing out the bad. Most game threads end in reviewing what we saw and pointing the good and bad based upon what each individual saw. What good is a message board if members here are limited or restricted to speaking fondly about each individual player since it's a team sport? That's absurd. plus, one person's vitriol is another person's blunt truth. Love it or hate it,. preaching from a soapbox won't change a thing, especially in post season. If there is a time to express emotion, this is the time. ' Since you brought up Jamal, people have grounds to criticize him just like they/we did to DJ, BG, Redick, and Barnes in these playoffs. People vent and then they move on. That's the process how a lot of fans get over a disappointing loss. Ever hear of the 5 stages of Grief? Well, fans deal with with a similar process. Only some fans are more animated than others but it is out of love for the team. By the way, since you brought up this subject, what your reasoning for bashing Hawes even when he doesn't play? You remarks about him, a player who doesn't see the floor is the epitome of vitriol. You randomly make remarks in game threads to get a laugh is no different than us complaining about players that actually negatively impacted a game. Actually, your remarks are....

"Whether it is me at the lowest level or BG at the highest, hoops is not chess"

Now that is funny. It's bad enough that you insult us, but actually using yourself as an example sure brings out the narcissist in you.

I'm a big boy. I can take it.

Although many here use Hawes as a whipping boy. And when you are seven feet tall with a seven foot contract, you are a BIG target!

Addendum: they say winning cures everything. Let's get behind the Clips and beat these foul-shooting, three point missing, ref-friendly Houston Rockettes!

Addendum II: and my vitriol is also there for Joey Crawford, Tony Brothers and all refs who take any contact out of playoff basketball and turn it into "breath ball" -- breathe on anyone, it's a foul. LET THE PLAYERS PLAY for crying out loud! Bill Laimbeer must be throwing up as he watches these refs do their damage to a great game.

More like self deprecating. Although it was probably the only way on planet Earth to get my name in the same sentence with the great Blake Griffin. In that, I have to pat myself on the back -- although no on else would!

The team losses, very true, but that doesn't mean a players decision making can't be a major factor in that.

Yes, people can get emotional and give irrational criticism. Some people will determine whether a player played well enough or not based on the outcome of the game, that's generally not fair or true, but players can play poorly and an individual can play in a way that did not benefit winning the most in a game.

Not really sure what the issue is

I think the issue is dealing with a loss that was likely caused on a non-foul on DJ early in the game. Even Marcellus Wiley (I was in my car listening to him without Max Kellerman who wisely was absent during Clippers talk) was grousing about the officiating. It was a shame -- 100 fouls or so called in a game. Who do we pay to see, the players or the refs? I think Joey Crawford thinks he is Jamal Crawford and people come to see him.

Soon this will be history as we take game three, with or without CP3. But if we don't get AT LEAST fair reffing, I will blow a gasket.

I don't care much about playing the blame game, the only ones I ever want to blame are refs when the day is done and the dust settles.

Right now I want to win and I don't give much of a crap how they do it,... just do it.

Oh well here I go again. It's human nature to blame someone when you are hurting even if the person being blamed isn't guilty. We are so protected of our Clippers we only want the best for them, the same way a mother protects her children (it's always the other childs fault). We can all agree we make comments and voice opinions because we think it will help our team win. If we were'nt so emotionally involved we would read these comments and move on. I'm sure Doc gets on his players and doesn't bite his tougue. He's able to bench the players when he's disappointed with their performance, we can only post ours. I've made negative comments in hopes of bettering the team. We can blame each player but on the otherhand each one helped us get to the finals. How many times has Jamal made 3's that had us jumping out of our seats? Hawes has made some 3's and defensive plays we were proud of. Austin is still learning so lets give him credit for playing his heart out when called to duty. The players are humans not machines where you turn them on and they run perfectly each time.

Together We Stand Divided We Fall

Go Clips

The Nevada Fans

That's still speculation. Yes, DJ going out changed things, but you never know what the outcome might have been, maybe Houston attacks a different way but still gets success, even through luck. Also that's basketball, the great teams overcome those things. Clippers opponents have had a key big get two fouls early before too, maybe one not deserving, it happens, and we don't say "we only won because of that early foul on their big that he might not have deserved". You have to make decisions as a coach and adjust as a team. Maybe Doc should have used one of his taller backup big men since it was too easy to throw over the top on Davis. How are we going to blame the foul for that decision when we could have weathered the storm?

The Clippers were still up, but the offense ground to a halt trying to force Jamal as an initiator and force the ball into Blake's hands when the Rockets were loading up on him which led to Jamal an already shaky decision maker in terms of shot selection being put in a position where he feels like he has to make something happen by himself, whether accurate or not. All these things and we're going to say that the loss was likely caused because of that foul? Come on, that's ridiculous. The reffing was wild in the game, but there was nothing egregious where it is the refs fault for the loss., You can't go into games with a mindset in which fair essentially means "in the Clippers favor" because then the reffing is hardly ever fair to you. Clippers hacked intentionally, got them in the bonus, they were at the basket 3 times as much as the Clippers were, they deserved to shoot more FT's. Clippers stagnated on offense, threw in some bad lineups, had some bad offensive decision making, that was the loss.

Meh... he's not picking on any single person.

Everyone has their moments when they say something they probably will regret..this should be yours. You seem to be a very nice person, with a good disposition about the team. However, intolerance is still intolerance. The problem I have with this post is that it is a form of censorship. It is blatantly telling people of different view points "STFU." People have left this forum for things like this. There is a form of personal attack on this forum that I hope moderators address. Fans have the highest standards for this team, and sometimes a fan may believe that our team would be better off without a player. For example, Jordan Farmar was terrible and a cancer on this team..are we less of a fan for saying so? I think not. The team is better off without him, and it may possibly be better without a few others too. My problem is that it has become taboo to say something like this here. Essentially this forum is discouraging people from having a different opinion. I hope the moderators begin to address this situation. This needs to be a forum that welcomes all opinions of this team as long as they are expressed respectfully.

Agreed, repped.

Nothing respectful about "SFU".

There are loses and there are loses (I hate it when people say something that stupid) We could not adjust to DJ being out. Anybody else guarding D12 was simply a waste of salary. The loss of Deandre loss was almost impossible to overcome. Hawes would foul out in 5 minutes. It's like running a race with one leg. Did it cause our loss? I am not clairvoyant but the odds say yes. D12 made 6 points in a nanosecond. Could we have made adjustments? Maybe. Could we have dug ourselves out of the hole that call caused? A point blank dunk gives no opportunity for a rebound or second chance point. Did the ref blow the call? No. D12 did it behind DJ's back so the ref couldn't see it. D12 I'm sure did it knowing that we would be lunch without DJ. How many times has he gotten 2 fouls in 5 min? This was hen's teeth. If he really fouled OK no complaint but he didn't but not the ref's fault

If we had instant reply that never would have happened

iEven though it would slow the game down, each coach should have three "coaches challenges," like football. You could get the time back by eliminating Hack-A-Shaq stuff. I think that would be a fair trade timewise.

It was replay not reply. On the eight day God created grapes.

It would also correct calls that the ref couldn't see like D12 pushing DJ.

What is it we do here? Well, the answer is, we do our own Monday morning analysis of the team. This site lets us pretend we are Stephen A. Smith, Jim Rome or some other sports talker. We think our way through the factors and players leading to a loss (Jamal took too many lousy shots, Barnes went insane), or a win (Austin stepped up big time, Griffin beasted, Paul was so clutch). We gripe about what the team should have done better (Hawes contributed nothing, or if DJ can't make a simple foul shot he should be traded) and extoll players for the little things (Baby picked up three charges). We second guess our coach (Doc Rivers) for his his substitution patterns, his motivational abilities and his X's and O's. We complain about players we don't think are playing hard enough (Blake Griffin as I recall). Who isn't worth the money they are paid and who is a bargain. We complain about or compliment the front office on trades they made and we tell them what trades they should try to make. This site works because there is drama here. Drama is conflict. Nobody gets hurt. Nobody is physically threatened. There may be a bruised ego now and then, but that's the price of expressing your opinion. Try a political website. I have seen vitriol here. I hardly remember seeing any hate. I think the high water mark for excitement in this site was when we still had Baron Davis. Joe and I went at each other and it was interesting, to say the least. Lots of other people had strong opinions. This site has never been more interesting. By the way, Joe, history has proven me right about Baron. Do you want to make something of it? Jamal is likewise a very polarizing player.....

Thank you for being the voice of reason and hope this board matures mentaly as our clips have this year.

Theres a big diffence between critism and blaming. Blaming and fueling hate is what we would like to minimize. As this site should be fun.

Exactly. Isn't that what a fan forum is for? People will say crazy things, but when you choose a life in the public eye (any life in the public eye), you open yourself to public criticism for good or bad. I've seen as much positivity in here as negative and that's fair.

Didn't jamal get voted third in 6th man voting this year.

Am I allowed to HATE Joey Crawford and Tony (he seems to have disappeared) Brothers even more than opposing players?

Addendum: Now that we had a last second win in Game 7 and a old fashioned, 25 point blowout in Game 3, which playoff game (as opposed to regular season almost meaningless games) do you enjoy more?

In the post-season I prefer the blowout games better. (But I prefer regular season tight games -- like the BG three pointer win).

You?

Sixth man Scmixt man,that's not relevant. What's relevant is how he fits our system. When he plays with system with JJ the plan is to swing the ball. We have JJ. CP, Jamal and BG as shooters so we should be able to find an open man. Dribbling and chucking defeats the whole purpose. If Jamal were on the Spurs he's spend much of his day on the bench unless he learned to pass. You don't win with Iso ball.

The topic of this thread is team ball. That means swinging the ball and finding your options. Play like a team not a hero. This type of play by an individual could cost us a game. Remember Baron's chucking threes?

Blake and barnes have learned to stop complaining about refs. If we just focus on beasting and win a championship overcoming bad refs. Then you know the ref will give us calls. refs like jamsl so he gets calls in his favor. Anyhow NBA wants Clips to win And owes us after last year. Look how we got the best schedule going into the playoffs this year. Plus lakers are on the outs cus jim buss is a retard. And NBA loves doc and balmer. clips will br the new NBA presence in LA. Be happy we are on the verge if starting a dynasty. then we get the calls by refs like kobe did.

Far as close game vs blow out. I like blow out on bad teams and close games against good teams. Note how many clutch shots to win games this season. Note paul peirce today. to bad we could not sign him last summer And prince was totally shafted.

Actually, the difference between blaming and criticism is fairly small.

As far as fueling hate, that is absurd. Do you really think I, or anyone else on this board, can fuel hate? As much as I dislike elements of Jamal's game, I don't hate him. I've actually heard he's a terrific guy. Is there anything I can say that is going to push you toward hating someone? I certainly hope not. If I can, it speaks more about you than it does about me.

When Ryan Gomes was here, the vitriol against him was unanimous. He had little if any support and it wasn't very interesting. When the criticism gets turned on about another player, it can be interesting. There were a lot of people, earlier in this season, who were ragging about Blake Griffin; of his effort level and his favoring of his newly found jump shot. I supported him. Were those who criticized him hating? I guess that depends on your personal definition of the word. I think they were wrong as they could be. Their knowledge of basketball was highly questionable, but I would never accuse someone of actually hating him.

Semantics. Does "I hate Blake Griffin" mean the same as "he was hating on Blake Griffin?" Of course not.

The more we try to sanitize this place, the duller it will be. Sure, some people do cross the line. The attacks sometimes get personal toward each other. When that happens, a good job has been done in putting an end to it.

By the way, in game 3 Jamal took good shots and helped contribute to the win.

In game 2, he took 6 or 7 horrific shots and was a major contributor to the loss.

1. When a good shooter takes good shots and misses, that's part of the game. It happens. No blame.

2. When a bad shooter takes good shots and misses, there is a reason why he's left open. He's a bad shooter. If DJ started taking wide open 17 footers, he would be hurting the team. There would be blame because he was making decisions against the best interest of the team. Think Josh Smith while in Detroit, who preferred jacking up 3's to playing a team game.

3. When a streaky shooter continues to jack up very difficult shots, while on a cold streak and while well guarded, dribbling to get those shots off and ignoring team offense in the process, he is making a decision against the best interested of the team. There is blame.

One of the talkers on a sports station said that Doc talked to Jamal after game 2 and told him to cool it. If the story is true (and I hope it is) Jamal responded professionally and played within the framework of the team structure in game 3. Good for him.

There is a difference between criticism and hate. You can have constructive criticism but not constructive hate. Tonight Jamal had several opportunities to pass to a wide open Austin for a corner three. He could get a pick and Austin could pass back for a good shot. Instead Jamal dribbled forever and shot a contested shot. Blaming implies that you are at fault. Criticism gives you an opportunity to improve

I think most of us share an intense dislike for Crawford and Brothers, especially Brothers for last year's fiasco.