The Clippers Organization Myopic View to Team Building

Word has come out that the Clippers are in trade talks to deal away James Harden. I see some interesting posts, and some fans don't want a trade to go through. The biggest complaints are these.

1. We cannot trade Harden because he was instrumental in getting back from the 6-21 start.

2. We cannot trade Harden because it will cause us to drop in the standings, and as a result we will have to send an even higher draft pick to the Thunder.

The organization should never operate under the philosophy of avoiding making changes because it will result in a higher draft pick to another team. They should operate under the philosophy of what will will be better for the team. Guys, if you are hanging your hopes on Harden being the missing piece to a championship, you've been lying to yourself. The fact that Kawhi and Harden have been in as many games and played as well as they have is more of an aberration at this stage in their careers. Also, are we going to lie to ourselves and act like we are going to continue to get games played by Kawhi? Kawhi is going to miss games, and it will likely be when we need him the most.

Harden asking for a trade is finally forcing us to do what the front office is too scared to do...blow this thing up. We should be trying to get young players and picks for EVERYONE on this team. The thing that Clippers fans aren't admitting to themselves is this: the FO has no strategy other than waiting for 2027. This motley crew of old players is just a stop gap that was supposed to do one thing: get into the playoffs and not project a lottery pick to OKC. This team wasn't going to go to the finals. We would be lucky to even get into the second round.

Let's say we keep Kawhi and Harden. We get bounced early on. What do we have beyond 2027 from these guys? Nothing. Whereas, if we deal everyone now, we have some assets in return along with cap space for 2027. Our pick is OKC's it doesn't matter if it's a top ten or 30th pick. I'd rather we move on from this core and get something in return, which is better for the organization than trying to keep this old folks home of a roster because we don't want to give a pick to OKC.

Agreed. One benefit to Garland is that he's in his prime. Assuming this toe deal isn't something that he's gonna be dealing with for the rest of his career, he has more good years left in him than Harden

The thing that confuses me is on Cleveland's end. Harden wants to go somewhere where he'll get a contract extension and Cleveland is looking for ways to trim payroll. I don't see where he fits in their future and/or why he thinks Cleveland is more likely to give him an extension

I agree with you but Franchises in major cities like LA and NY loathe the idea of rebuild…they would rather retool the way Clippers are trying to do. I am on board with that idea…especially for a guy who went through the abyss of the franchise for so long.

Now because of the situation, we might not get a fair return in this trade. But a younger and healthier (hopefully) Garland might make us win in the long term.

Harden has always been like a frog looking for the next lily pad to hop on to. Sometimes it's due to him not getting an extension, other times it's him not happy about the outlook of the team's future. If Cleveland were to throw in a draft pick, I'd be all for this trade. Garland straight up for Harden would probably be a huge risk given his injury. That said, I hope we are able to get a return out of this trade.

My hope is that he doesn't know something that the general public doesn't know. With rumors swirling about why Kawhi didn't get on the all star team and almost all of them having to do with Experient and now the Harden trade demand, you start connecting dots. Does Harden not want to play for a team that's about to lose a bunch of draft picks as a penalization from the league?

That's a possibility as well, but this does seem on brand for Harden. As of now, we have finalized the trade. We acquired Garland and a second round pick. It's not the ideal package, but we got something in return. Garland can get some minutes and gets us younger. We should look to package this pick and another second to try to draft into the first round. Either way, we didn't lose here like we did by letting PG go for free when there were buyers on the market. I'm glad we got something in return and got rid of Harden. I loved how he was playing, but this is who he is. The minute he feels undervalued or sees the ship sinking, he leaves. Good riddance.

Yeah I was disappointed to find out that he wanted out. Perhaps this has been going on since the horrible start- I was actually surprised that there weren't any rumblings from him back then. I think he has never missed the playoffs, and the fear of missing it plus next year his entire salary not guaranteed, meant he had his foot out the door perhaps much earlier than people thought.

Garland is a good player, probably a more reliable 3 point shooter, but despite his youth he's oft injured, and I think every Clipper fan has been tired of all the injures derailing the team the last decade or so. Harden has been a bit of an ironman, so that plus his playmaking and ability to draw fouls are going to be missed. That said he actually has been dropping in efficiency since Kawhi returned, and lately has had so many shots blocked around the rim that ignite fast breaks, not to mention the propensity for live ball turnovers. But Garland has a pretty high turnover rate as well.

But having Garland on the books lessens the chance of signing a different star player in the off season, but we'll see how the newly-reupped Lawrence Frank has up his sleeves.

Great points David. It's an utter scumbag move on Harden's part because we were essentially the hottest team in the league the last few games. If there were a time he would have been validated to ask for the trade, it would have been when we were 6-21. Garland would not have been the ideal player to add to an injury prone squad. However, we had no choice with Harden's decision to revert to himself and do what he does best...run. We're all tired of the injuries, but to be honest we should've had enough after year three of the 213 era. Ballmer is not a BAD owner. We had Sterling for many years. Ballmer is just STUBBORN. He doesn't know when a core is done. If it weren't for CP3 wanting out of the Clippers in 2017, Ballmer would have fielded a corpse crew with CP as the center piece. He only makes moves when the players say it's over...that's a huge problem. I'm not saying I'm a genius GM in hiding, but if I can see when a group of players has hit its ceiling but the owner and FO can't...that's a red flag. As for Harden, I'm disappointed but not surprised. We have two paths to take now: (1) keep making small loves to keep this Kawhi led team in playoff mode (2) fire sale and stock assets Option one scares me because it's the thinking that ended up trading assets for Harden. Both roads have 2027 as the end goal to clear cap for free agent signing. But option one is where the front office does very, very stupid things. When Kawhi and George were together they FO kept dealing away assets and brought in Harden in order to go all in, even though it was clear that PG....

When DTS decided to have a good team, he got Kaman a one time allstar, Brand, Magettee who was 20pt 6 reb. He signed Davis to have Kaman, Brand,Davis Magettee but Brand flaked. If not injured Livingston could have been great (maybe) He signed Doc Rivers which on paper was a goood idea. He signed Lob City He signed SGA. He had the Bench Mob, best bench in the NBA. I grew up under Jim Crow and his racism doesn't bother me. He got screwed.You can't blame the FO. .Frank while under DTS signed Lob City. Our failures were stupid f*ck ups and bad team chemistry, not bad teams. Not a bad owner. After Beale fo Powell Isn't it time to say the empeeror is stark naked? Olawakandi was not DTS's fault, He didn't like basket ball.He had size and athleticism to be good. He played soccer. He refused lessoms from Jabarr. At least our f*ck ups were fun.

Harden had been around for a long time and they should have known his personality which is obviously dysfunctional.I'm sure Frank knew this. When he said "I am the system" Bells went off. I don't understand player like him and Durant. They will never have a legacy. They have never put their stamp on a team JH's jersey would have been retired They will be forgotten as will the glory days of LAC and the empty stadium that under DTS sold out every night.. Trade KL and Zu. Zu deserves a good squad.

It’s not exactly a rebuild when you get a two time all star at 26. Also the surprises that our youngsters delivered are a godsend that puts us in the desirable position of having an excellent young base to work from. Sanders, Miller, Collins, Yanic and now Garland are all young studs. In a year when Harden is officially declining we will be on the winning side of this trade. Great work by Frank after being put in a difficult position by James. We’re going to be a much more exciting team to watch.

agree with this. I was sick of harden honestly. Super inconsistent and inefficient. Crazy turnovers. We actually won in spite of him most of the time.

Garland will prove to be much better than harden who couldn’t get past anybody anymore.

Yep. Not to split hairs but this is a departure from the "old Vets" We needed a laxative but were unwilling to take it. Now we were forced. I think it is a rebuild in the best sense because the philosophy of 213 has changed unless Ballmer f*cks it up. I had always said this team was fool's gold. I was right but for the wrong reason. Hardin was great for the team in the short run, and I had no problems but for the long run. Everybody knows they shouldn't have gotten him in the first place. What is fun is watching the youngsters. Can they bang their heads?

Davis wound up being a horrible signing regardless of whether Brand was here or not. The mistake was letting Maggette go as Corey was an up tempo type player that could've ran the floor with BD which in turn would've made the BD signing a little less worse

He did sign Rivers but originally didn't want to. CP forced him to do it or he would've started creating problems. Simply put, CP basically hired Doc

Thankfully, Stern stepped in on the league's behalf which is how Lob City came to be

He didn't sign SGA. The Clippers DRAFTED SGA and that was a good 4 years after Sterling was gone and the bench was better after he left as well. Lemon Pepper Lou and Montrezz were both 6th man candidates at the same time, something that rarely happens in the NBA. This was also a good 5 or 6 years after Sterling was gone

Lastly, there is no more half empty arena. Prices have come way down and the it's packed on a nightly basis

For once, it seems like we got some production from these second round picks. We had so many busts when we were drafting late in the first or second. The young guys look good. They won't be all stars, but I think these guys have the potential to become good role players, which is not a bad thing. Overall, Harden really screwed us, but he has a long history of pulling these kind of stunts. This is something we need to factor in moving forward when we acquire players.

Whether we won or lost this trade depends on Garland's health. Statistically, Cleveland got the better player, but in the long run we got the better deal, as Harden's clock has already started counting down. We just have to cross our fingers and hope that Garland can manage his healthiest years while in a Clippers uniform. Also, this means we have to hit a home run with that second round pick we are getting in the package. At least we managed to get a return for Harden and didn't just lose him for nothing like we did PG.

I am totally with you on not making moves based on picks we have sent out... don't make moves based on factors that do not involve your team.

But I disagree with your assessment of our talent - Kawhi + Harden + Zu - and how they would perform in the post season. Old man/wise basketball is a strength when the game slows down in the postseason. I am not going to pretend we'd be favored in any matches, but the whole goal of the season is to make the postseason - then anything is possible.

I also do not agree that getting younger is better... we do not have the personnel to develop effectively. Point blank.

Even if we did (that is a BIG IF - even the best scout and development teams routinely fail at talent recognition and development), you want to put in the time (and seasons) of "development" [which = mediocrity (something I remember you saying our "hallmates" do not accept)] so that we end up pieces that are great - a la Kawhi + Harden + Zu.

I mean if we don't have the patience to give the uncs a few looks at the postseason together, I highly doubt we will be patient enough for the development method. I repeat the development method is such a gamble even when you have the best team of scouts and coaches. It's like the stock market... We had tried and true stocks that paid dividends and more or less held on to their value, but we wanted to sell them for a sexier more speculative stock. A whole lot higher upside, maybe. But definitely more volatile and riskier, in the hopes they reach the levels of the stocks we already had!

Sometimes you don't win... you run it back. That is just the nature of the game. But we HAD the pieces... we just needed to have patience (we needed to hold the stock).

And now... we are going to need to have a lot more patience. Who knows, maybe the new young pieces come together and are more effective than the net talents of Kawhi + Harden + Zu... That is the hope.

Over the years, I've read your posts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you being absolutely livid when we dealt away CP3 to Houston, am I right? I sort of get this feeling like you like to keep the status quo? Run it back. Do I have your outlook correct?

When the team has talent, I like to hold on to the talent. If you want to call that status quo, sure.

Now, were you angry that we blew up the Lob City core? Did you want to keep that team together?

Honestly, can't remember.

Wow…wow…you are asking as if it is in a court of law😀

I've been pretty critical of the location and the goofiness of not letting people wear what they want but as someone who has always been a proponent of the Clips having their own arena and being out of the Laker shadow, I will take it 100 times out of 100 over being at Crypto. It's just a matter now of telling other fans how to maximize their experience

Park at Hawthorne/Lennox and take the shuttle. Will save you tons

Eat before or after the game. BJ's at the Culver Westfield if open late as is Raising Cane's in El Segundo for the south bay crowd

Make sure you have a good credit card on file on your app if you do plan on buying food or merchandise

And so on

😆Just curious about his opinion.

LAC_12 is a good guy just like all of you!

Never said he wasn't. We're just having a discussion.

Sorry but I would tell them to avoid it like the flux as I do 100% of the time but we have our different preferences, I would be dishonest to tout it. Maximizing my experience would mean that you would pay me $300 to go and I probably would, Not a joke. Just because Ballmer and the Clipps own it doesn't mean that it isn't awful. If you saw the Yelp the reviews were biphasic half 5 stars half 0ne star. I live a mile from the Westfield Mall ,The shuttle from Culver City was a joke. You have to drive to the Sepulveda Station and pay to park or wait for the Green bus. I had paid for my transit card for the station and my parking space was all set up. It was a total mess. Wait for the bus then get there early for the shuttle, up to an hour. .I drove there and park in 1/4 the time. Best to have everyone go and see for themselves.I hope they have a good experience. It's good to give them tips. Everybody has their own opinion and we won't change each other. Also parking is often sold out so you have to book on line ahead of time. Being in the Lakers place never bothered me.

I honestly forgot. I really did not think BG was all that... meaning I feel like he did not hit his potential.

During those times, I loved me some CP3 cause he lit a fire under DJ and BGs butt... warned them to take it more seriously (same things that rubbed our group the wrong way now probably)

But BG and DJ self admittedly were immature and in that case may have needed it.

I can't remember how I felt about breaking up that core... but that core did have A LOT more time together and A LOT more chances.

Don't do the Culver city mall option. When I talk about shuttles, I mean drive all the way to Hawthorne/Lennox MTA stop. There is a parking lot on each side of the street. I try to nab a spot on the lot that's on the same side as where you catch the shuttle. You only pay $3 to park then the shuttle is not only free but a much shorter ride than the mall

Again, a moot point if you won't be going to anymore games but just in case you do, that's the better way

Good thing to inform people everybody should try it. Also there is a station on Sepulveda near Olympic but you have to buy a parking pass and use it every few days. Maybe street parking.

https://www.parkwhiz.com/

Book early. The Lee Hotel is a block away