Who Do the Clippers Rebuild Around?

So, almost all of us agree that a major rebuild is required. The only difference seems to be if we build around Blake, or move him and start from the ground up.

In looking at what we have I think.

DJ: is not a max contract guy. I'd be looking to trade him for future prospects ASAP

Blake: I think we can keep him, at least into next season, see what level the rebuild is at - if a competitive retooling happened quickly as the result of a high draft pick and some shrewd Jerry West moves, or if it's going to be a long climb. If it's a long climb, then we can move Blake around next season's trade deadline.

Wesley: Despite a fairly hot start, he is reverting to form rapidly. In starter's minutes he's averaging 7.5 points and shooting .34% from three. Hasn't everyone learned by now that this guy is worthless?

Danilo: I would follow the same theory as for Blake. I would hold on to him until next season, before making a decision. However, if the right move did come sooner, I wouldn't hesitate to move him. That, given his injury situation, is unlikely.

Reed, Harrell and our 27-year-old rookies. Who the hell cares? Both Reed and Harrell are okay, but neither is worth keeping either. It simply depends on what can be gotten in return. In short, while these guys hold some value, none of them are building blocks.

Dekker: I had higher hopes for this guy and he's been a let down. His confidence seems shattered by a bad start (or perhaps Doc). In any event, he's the only one of the Houston guys who I think has a chance to end up being a solid rotational player (save for Beverly), but he sure hasn't proven me right on that so far.

Beverly: is an excellent defender, but has serious limitations. He can't play the point, and at 6'1", to keep him he must be paired with a tall PG. He worked in Houston because of Harden and he might not have been a bad choice here paired with Milos. That didn't happen. He should also be moved with one possible exception, Milos comes back strong and proves he's our PG for the next few years. Or, some other tall PG is brought in. Then Beverly might be worth keeping.

Austin: I could keep him (only if Doc is gone) or let him go for value. I think he is a marginal player. If some other team overvalues him, take what we can get.

Lou: Is a terrific player, an ideal 4 or 5 scorer. If he's not too expensive and the team comes together fairly quickly, he could be kept. If a complete overhaul is in order, then he should go soon. And, of course, we might also lose him regardless of whether or not we want to keep him, so it might be advisable to get something soon as we tank these season, which is necessary. A high pick in next year's draft is vital to any scenario.

Thornwell and Evans: Two really nice second rounders who both look like they belong. In their third years I think both these guys could make themselves rotational players. Or both could end up journeymen. Thornwell reminds me of Wesley Matthews Jr. when he came into the league. A good defender with a good body who turned himself from a journeyman level player to an excellent NBA starter. Evans reminds me of Wesley Matthews Sr., a solid pest of a guard who was good enough to start at times and be a rotational player on other teams. Obviously, both Thornwell and Evans have a long way to go to equal the talents of the Matthews father and son, but they do have a chance at it and so should be kept for another year to see what, if anything, blooms.

First thing for this future rebuild is removing Doc.

At least that's when I know management is serious about moving forward.

Sam- agree with most of the points there. Wesley Johnson though seems to be playing well enough to keep for next season. His defense has been pretty good, and his shooting has improved, so I don't mind him as a 3 and D player role-player spot starting or coming off the bench. Also Reed & Harrell are pretty solid, & the latter is still under contract for cheap next season I believe. Same goes for Beverley, though not sure if he will be the same player when he returns next season. And yeah Lou has been very good, but yeah if there is a great offer to trade for him I guess the team has to take it, especially if it will be tanking.

Sam,

Good question and good analysis.

Just as a quick mental exercise I tried to figure out how many players in all of the NBA that I would rebuild around. That number of players is pretty small, LeBron, Westbrook, and then it gets fuzzy, Steph, Durant, Davis, ....? I really didn't write that to create a discussion (or to hijack this thread), but my point is that to me, there are very few players that I would definitely rebuild around. It seems that everyone has a "price" and if you can get enough value, most everyone is up for trade.

Having said that, and to respond your question, I would rebuild around Blake. I would try really hard to keep Lou Williams (I think his defense and playmaking is getting better and will continue) and Sindarius. I like Evans, but he really looks small on the court. I also like Dekker, if his shot starts falling (or maybe he just isn't a good shooter).

Everyone else I would shop.

Yeah. I think it just goes to show that there isn't much here. DJ, Blake, Gallo and Williams are the only high quality players we have and DJ appears out the door. Harrell is good on his contract as you say. Hopefully Milos will prove to be a keeper and Decker will turn it around.

I think the thing about the CP3 trade was that it put us in a position that the rebuild, if we get some breaks, might not require going back to 15 and 67.

Austin. He has star power potential

Good analysis Sam. You obviously know how I feel about Austin but everything else I pretty much agree with. Although I think reed and Harrell have more value than you are giving them, backup bigs seem to be hard to Find for cheap. I think I would be leaning towards trading Beverly as well since he really isn't a PG, i bet the Cavs or a team with a good point forward could put some good value on him.

Funny, a lot of us, myself included, were excited to watch this team.

And for a brief period it was exciting. Milos was getting his feet wet and looked like a solid NBA player, and better defensively than advertised. The ball was moving. When he went down a weak schedule got us a few more wins, then Beverly and Galinari went down and it was over. Even Blake couldn't help us win.

Soon we will be getting Milos and Galinari back. Will that be enough to allow us to play .500 ball while we wait for Blake? I hardly think so, but it might make us at least somewhat watchable again.

You are spot on Sam. However, what we need to do is really evaluate the current situation for what it is.

1. The core of Milos, Danillo, Patrick, Blake, and Deandre wasn't going to be a contender. At best this was a 6th to 8th seed team with a likely 1st or 2nd round out.

2. It was a nice team considering that it came as a result of losing your best player.

3. There were many conditionals given the injury history of many, if not all, of the incoming starters.

Those three points don't indicate that the organization is serious about winning a championship, they indicate that the organization is trying to hang on to playoff appearance. For us to be a championship team we have to completely rebuild (trying to build through free agency and trades is way to costly and difficult).

I think we should completely rebuild and draft wiser this time around. We also need to be patient because all the picks won't be successful, but if we stay the course we will have built a competitive team in a cap-friendly way where we control the terms.

That is certainly one of the two doors open to us and it makes sense. It's just that there is a tremendous potential for many painful years. It works when the drafting is extraordinary, or an extraordinary player falls into your lap, like a James, Jordan, Duncan and not too many others over the last 20 years. The luck factor also becomes a requirement. Golden State drafting Curry, Thompson and Green, none a top 6 pick, and having them all turn into major stars was an amazing strike of good fortune.

I think we set out on a more modest rebuild, with the idea (like you say) of making the bottom of the playoffs this year and then playing it year by year afterward, hoping the Jerry West factor could work in our favor.

Steps

1. We've already done this one whether we wanted to or not with CP3 forcing a trade. It created flexibility to allow us to continue in subsequent years.

2. Starting now and continue through next season. Accept Blake as our guy and move expensive players who may not add to our win total in an effort to get better and younger. Moving DJ is a big part of this. Wesley and Austin seem to also fit this category. We come back next year and see where we are. To make this work, our front office will have to really spot diamonds in the rough and win these trade battles. The tanking of this season and a high draft pick will also be a big factor. I don't see us making the playoffs this year, so a great player in the lottery would be a great kickstart.

3. This step will start the following year, based on how we're doing. if we are on the right track, we could keep the team intact. If not, Blake and Galinari would be next in line in a wholesale rebuild.

Honestly Austin and Doc are he first to go. Dj is second. Might as well keep Blake since we have him for at least 3 more years. No need to rush. I like reed, Harrell, and he rookies. No sense in trading them for more lateral moves.

Gallo if we can get a pick or 2 for him I could see a trade happening. Wesley needs to go... Dekker is nothing special.

I like pat Bev

If he pans out and I think he might. We will know by season's end. It will be- Jawan Evans. BG is not the player of the future. Sorry guys, If we dump Doc i'd build it around Austin. Austin is the only true Alpha Dog. Who else has any balls? Beverly is gone. "Dump A R, Dump Doc" has become a holy mantra but will it really happen or to quote Bob Dylan " are we sitting here beating on our trumpet'? To quote Bobby "the Brain" Heenan, Stick a fork in us because we are done".

CP should have left. His supposed Big Three became a one dimensional Center and an injury prone PF who was supposed to set the world on fire but somebody pissed on his match. We never had a SF and the bench bit the bag. Then there was Austin, and Doc's lack of leadership. Of course he should have left. It was obvious we were going nowhere.

There are no players worthy of building a team around if you want to be successful five years from now. With the guys we have now we'll fight for #6 and be one and done and screwed in five years.

Now that DJ has an agent I will listen to what type of money he wants (and situation)

He is the ONLY player I will rebuild around IF the price is right.

He has shown to be sturdy and healthy and produce consistent numbers. He doesn't do enough on offense to warrant the money he is receiving and he needs a PG to be playing at his best.

I would, in reality, shop ALL. Blake isn't it. He never was, he never will be (in my opinion.)

I'm just really down on this entire team.

DJ isn't a franchise player just by default of his offense being so limited. How can you build around a player like that. As much as crap on blake he's been a key part to our success. We n ex a coach who whips players into shape and I think blake starts playing defense like what we saw with kyrie. Would be nice to see him around 12 rebounds a game again also

Pat Beverly tweets out a video of him doing therapy on his knee, Blake is going out to clubs with his girlfriend. Looks like he's walking fine by the way. Can you tell which player has the max contract and which is still working hard?

Try re-reading the post. Clearly you misundestood.

Thread asks who the Clippers rebauild around, not who the teams franchise player should be.

I suggested to rebuild around the defensive anchor of this team, who happens to also be a very solid/healthy player.

In fact, I also mentioned it might not be feasible because he wants more money than he is worth (specifically due to his offensive limitations.)

That is in stark contrast to Blake, who is always injured. And who I have never see play great defense...

He's also averaged 12 reb ONCE in his career, doubt he ever gets "back " to doing that. He's only averaged double digits rebounding ONE other time than that.

I read it right, just don't think you build around a player unless he is a franchise player.

Maybe you can build around Blake but that's it for this roster. It would be laughable to build a team around DJ or Austin. I just want to tank, trade DJ for a first and go into the next draft with two first rounders.Some of these guys in the top 10 might be franchise changers

With his recent scoring, Austin is the closest to a Franchise player that we have. I'm not saying I like Austin, I'm saying that's how screwed we are.

I second this plan!

Lou Williams is scoring more than austin and getting more boards and assist so by that rationale he should be the franchise player, not austin lol

Nigel, Please. He's a shoe size 9 trying to fit into a size 19. That's "irrational confidence" peaking at this moment. But we all know there is a Valley coming down the road and we're losing tire pressure fast. lol

"I'm saying that's how screwed we are." Closest is the relative distance between two things. In relationship to the rest of the team he's close to the franchise player. He's shone more grit than BG or DJ, I never said he was good at it, He's less worse. Piatkowski was our franchise guy.

I know, I keed. I had to sneak it in.

Cleveland is desperate for another championship. With Lebron possibly leaving, they are in win-now mode and might overpay a bit for DJ.

I would try to get their number one pick for DJ (the Nets pick they got from Boston), plus Tristan Thompson. They get the defensive anchor and rebounder they desperately need to make a real run at a championship and to keep Lebron beyond this year.

We got that pick, plus our own, likely two top 10 picks. That would give this rebuild a great jump start.

Is that too much? I don't think so. If they offer Thompson and fodder, plus their own number one (very late first rounder) that doesn't even get the ball rolling for the Clippers. It's a non starter and they know it.

I think you're being too nice to Johnson. He's not down to 43/32 shooting and has only made 1 3PT shot over his last 5 games. He's 30 years old and he's not getting any better, there's no point in keeping him.

Players I would keep:

Blake: Still a second-tier star, still very talented

Gallo: Already gave him a big contract and he won't be that easy to trade

Thornwell: Rookie, of course

Evans: Rookie, of course

Milos: Still a good guy to keep and see what he can do

Beverley: He's not a PG, and he makes a backcourt small because you need to pair a PG with him, but he has two more years and is cheap

Players that it depends on contract:

Reed, Harrell, Dekker - They are still decent role players, and there's no reason to get rid of decent role players if the price is right

Players to trade:

DJ: as a big contract for him is questionable for this team and he has the most trade value

Rivers: Don't care for a dad/son combo on a team

Williams: Have no issues with him, but he's an expiring contract

B.Johnson: Just doesn't look good

W. Johnson: He's had enough chances

Agree with all that, although I would love to keep Lou will off the bench. Jamele Wilson also looks like a worthwhile keeper.

Let's say that you have a hole in your suit and you patch it and patch it and patch until you have more patch that suit. I'm watching Embid, Towns Przingis (sp), the Brow. the Greek guy. Matthews. Sometimes you need a new pair of pants. In the next two years we'll be having the same discussion, which mid level star or low level journeyman should we dump. If BG had continued to play like the last game and nobody got hurt, we'd be a dangerous team. We still may be but we don't have a "WOW" factor. Beverly, Gallo, Telos where are they in three years? Where is Embid in three years? We'll be bottom feeders. What one young guy do we have. Where is the balance between youth and veterans? Where is the balance between talent and mediocrity? Not being corney but is there hope left for this squad?

keepers:

pg * Juwon Evans

sg * Wesley Johnson, Sindarius Thornwell

sf * Sam Dekker, Brice Johnson

c5 * Deandre Jordan, Willie Reed, Montrezl Harrell

goners:

pg * Patrick Beverley, Milos Teodosic, Lou Williams

sg * Austin Rivers, CJ Williams

pf * Blake Griffin, Danilo Gallinari, Jamil Wilson

HC Doc Rivers & FO friends

would do my best to get a draft pick or two if and when moving Blake and Austin.

would def keep DJ, albeit would only offer a fair market value contract and not overpay.

FA targets: sg Mario Hezonja, sf Wilson Chandler, c JaVale McGee, Kosta Koufos

draft prospects: pg Jaylen Adams, pf Wendell Carter

trade target: pg George Hill (Blake to Sactown for Hill and Koufos)

• can I trade Austin for Wilson Chandler, and would offer Gallinari in exchange for Hezonja and take back Bismack Biyombo in trade

pg * George Hill, Juwon Evans, Jaylen Adams

sg * Wesley Johnson, Mario Hezonja, Sindarius Thornwell

sf * Wilson Chandler, Sam Dekker, Brice Johnson

pf * Wendell Carter, Kosta Koufos, Montrezl Harrell

c5 & Deandre Jordan, JaVale McGee, Willie Reed

HC Sam Cassell (Asst Robert Pack)

(need to move Bismack Biyombo somehow)

Dekker has done little and Wes can't shoot. In the West we'll be fighting for PO then out of the running in 2 years. I'd rather watch a bunch of promising rookies than a bunch of almost -was' or used-to-was',or never-was'..Richardson, DMIles, Odom were at least fun.

We have solid pieces that can be used to bring in even solider pieces to build around Blake. We're most likely stuck with the Blake/Gallo forward combo for the next 3 years. I don't know if we can move Beverly while he's injured. The rookies are solid, probably don't have much trade value so are likely to be around for a bit.

I think the absolute worst thing we can do is stay as we are and not make any moves at all. We need to be wheeling and dealing before the deadline if we're going to have any legitimate hope for the future. Blake and Gallo aren't a bad pair to build around when you have trade pieces like Deandre Jordan, Lou Williams, Harrell and even Austin Rivers, to work with. There are moves to make, they just need to be made.

Agreed. There are many teams that are very successful by just drafting players. I like the idea of developing these players and keeping the team cost-effective

Cost effective is a big point.

Duncan, Dirk and Manu played cheap. The Warriors picked well and got lucky. The "Win Now" strategy killed us. You can't just not plan for the future. We now have cap problems. We forget that some of the old teams like LAL didn't worry about the cap They went over the cap but as far as. Cost/benefit, they won. A champion makes a lot more in other ways. Before the new CBA I was so pissed that Sterling wouldn't say screw the cap. Cost/benefit we would have been better off. If this were the old days, how many good players could we have bought? We wouldn't have had a trash bench and no SF. Back to cost effective. That means not being hamstrung by the cap constantly and trying to rebuild.

I do not get why people are so eager to let go of DJ. He is the only consistent thing on this team. Night in, night out you know what you are getting from him. A trait I last remember Elton Brand having. No he is not a superstar, but he is a solid piece to a good team.

The question is who do you BUILD AROUND and although it may sound like, whoever you build around is your franchise player... but that is not true 100% of the time. You can build around a non-franchise player and bring in a franchise player at a later date.

We want to cash in Jordan - a proven player - for picks that may/may not be stars? Do we know our own draft history? Do we know how great a scouting staff we've got? We are no San Antonio - or GS for that matter.

I would not be so quick to deal DJ - specially after having looked at the Trade DJ thread.

DJ has very high value and could be a big time game changer for a team in Championship contention like the Celtics. We may have better luck building around the players we receive in a trade for DJ than we have at not only re-signing him, but actually being able to build around him...

DJ and Lou Williams are 2 guys that could put a team over the top, instantly. Both of their contracts are up at the end of the year so moving them could be in the best interest of all parties.

This team isn't good enough and won't be good enough without a major move. It looks like Ballmer loves Blake, so it is unlikely he will be the guy. That leaves DJ as our most marketable asset. We need to build for the NEAR FUTURE.

Cleveland is in win-now mode and they must win at all costs while Lebron is there and the window to a championship is open. There is a deal to be done.

Thompson and the NJ # 1 they hold for DJ. Add whatever filler is necessary to make the contracts work. That gives us our top ten pick and a top 5 pick in next year's draft. If we do well with it, we're in great shape... Solid immediately with the potential to be very good. Blake, Gallo, Teodosic, Austin, Beverly. Evans, Thornwell, Harell and two top ten picks. That's a pretty good nucleus and doesn't preclude the possibility of also moving Austin, Beverly and retaining Lou Williams. And if Dekker turns it around, we have him too.

If it doesn't look like it's enough, move Blake the following year, again for youth and picks. If we do that, all of a sudden we have a team with a lot of good young players who were drafted high.

It gives us two bites at the apple, two chances to rebuild, the first one a very rapid one and the second one a ground up transition.

We would no longer be the old team that Doc left hamstrung in his horrible GM tenure.

We hear you but the problem is he's a unrestricted free agent at the end of the year and he might walk for nothing.

not ready to give up on Dekker, 'specially as he has been compared to a young Gordon Hayward. and no surprise that peoples are no fan of Wes, and.... he is the only guy on this squad that can guard Harden and the like.... how some of us consider us playoff contenders without a defender for the off guard spot on perennial playoff teams that most all have taller/bigger off guards that can cause big troubles if we don't have someone to slow their roll. and exactly.... we are out of the running, and personal opinion is because this board and our FO continue to emphasize offense over playoff/championship caliber defense first. promising rooks ain't gonna get 'er done, and.... neither is Blake or Gallo. how many playoff runs/seasons has Blake's absence derailed for us ?? and what defense does Gallo play ?? and they are no harder to move than Jamal was or Austin woulda been. and not sure it was any "win now" mode that stopped us, and rather it was a HC that was allowed to GM us w/pretty much the driving force behind his decision making, being the success of his first born.... our dual GM/HC has yet to show up our down and out one time VDN HC of purported ill repute. at the root of things is a FO that has been more of the procrasti nation than any semblance of Clipper Nation, and.... not really swayed by the fact that Ballmer might like Blake better than DJ.... how many playoff series/seasons has DJ cost us ?? and we have absolutely zero (answer to above query btw) need for TT here in LA.... (don't need Kevin Love or anything else that Cleveland might care to share w/us either). and two draft picks in the top....

Keaton, Sam, Clem.... I hear ya.

But if I were the Clippers, I would approach DJ and say "we want to keep you here for life, you want to stay?"

and then bank on his word.

I know there are enticing offers for him, but picks are not the best options to a team that cannot draft well. Also, super risky.

At the end of the day I hear ya, but I don't want to admit it. Ballmer does love Blake, and I have to come to terms with that.