Clippers: The Foul Machines

One overlooked massive defensive issue that has the potential to cause a lot of problems in the playoffs, and actually was a big part of what lost the series vs Memphis in 12-13 is that the Clippers are HACKS!

This team is 29th in opponent FT/FGA and rank 28th in opponent FTM. This isn't new. They were 29th in 11-12 and 12-13 under VDN, which was still bad, but they had the saving grade in 12-13 that they also led the league in forcing turnovers. Of course I've expressed it before that while that defense looks good in the regulars season, against disciplined teams, if you're primary mode of defense is aggressive trapping and forcing turnovers, you won't force the turnovers, you'll commit the fouls and you'll look awful on defense, case and point, defense in the series vs Memphis in 12-13.

Fouling might be good defense for opposing teams hacking DJ, a 40% FT shooter, but fouling, especially when it is sending the opponent to the FT line is one of the worst ways to defend in the NBA and in basketball as a whole because FT's are just way too efficient. I've been watching the Clippers tendency to send opponents to the line all season, hoping it would decrease, but it's actually gotten worse. Let us just look at the last few games:

Sacramento: 32 FTA

Charlotte: 29 FTA

Houston: 36 FTA

Dallas: 16 FTA

OKC: 36 FTA

Minnesota: 21 FTA

Golden State: 23 FTA

You could at least stomach those numbers if the Clippers were also shooting 30 FTA/G, but that's not the case, actually, especially in the lower opponent FTA games, the Clippers are only shooting like 10-15 FT's themselves.

There's some defensive discipline issues related to it. Hacking guys to try and swipe the ball, but not doing it in a means where they can't also get a shot up. Another culprit is the hedge and recover defense. A teams defense is a balance of personnel as well as trying to take away one thing without doing too much harm to your ability to defend other areas. So you don't want to avoid fouling and start giving up easy trips to the rim, but you don't want to give up easy things and also be fouling, which is just a worst case scenario. One of the ways perimeter guys draw fouls is on the big man from a slow or late hedge, Hawes and Davis don't have a lot of luck with that.

Is fouling always bad? No, depends on why you're fouling. Stopping an easy fastbreak basket by wrapping up, not bad for example. Generally, you don't want to excessively foul. So, if the Clippers high foul rate correlated to aggressive and pressure defense that was forcing a lot of turnovers, then there's a trade-off and some possible value. I'm not the biggest fan of that type of defense because it plays into the hands of certain type of offenses, like the Spurs, but at least there's something your gaining. Sadly the Clippers are one of the worst at sending opponents to the line, but just a mediocre team in forcing turnovers. There doesn't seem to be much being gained from all the fouling. The Clippers bench as a whole just has a bunch of guys averaging about 3.5 fouls/36 or more.

What are your thoughts? Is there an actual "solution" to this? Is the solution just to try and draw as many fans as the opponents to balance it out? Easier said than done, but essentially what the Clippers did last season. How much of a factor do people think this could play in a playoff series?

The second unit is slow and lumbering especially with Matt starting. Your point is well taken. They can't stop dribble penetration and when the guy gets to the rim they don't have the agility to recover and do a good double team or protect the rim at all because Hawes is too weak and uncoordinated and Baby is too short. Unfortunately the solution probably s a good on ball defender. Nobody except Austin on the second unit can get out of his own way

Please don't mention refs.

Even Austin has been pretty foul prone, not just as a Clipper, but for his career. Career 3.4 fouls/36, as a Clipper, a high 3.8 fouls/36. Can't just hack people.

Theorize all you want , the refs have a big Part in a teams fouls. All too often I see clippers called for ticky tack fouls, while our guys get hammered on the other end.

The refs have a target on the clippers, whether you want to believe it or not.

I've watched Dj damn near clotheslined after getting a rebound, no foul call, then he gets a tech for yelling. " got damn it".

This is just one case I see over and over. Fouls not being called evenly for the clippers.

MY wife's reasoning, ,we are always an away team no matter what. We play in the Lakers arena (really we both play n the Kings arena) so we are always a visitor.

STORY: 10 or so year ago I took my friend to a home "us vs the Warriors". Close to half time he said "man, the refs really do not like your team , do they?". And GS really sucked at that time. Few weeks later I took an acquaintance to an "us VS Kings game." He made about the same comment. this BS is not new is just seems to be magnified now because for us it does matter....mainly because winning does matter. 10 years ago not looking like dopes mattered.

This year my GS friend looks at box score and notices it seems to always seem be a 2:1 or a 3:1 ratio of us giving fouls to any other team. There's some numbers to ponder.

My point was that we can do nothing about refs so we have to leave it out of the equation. What can we do to change things?

My point was that we can do nothing about refs so we have to leave it out of the equation. What can we do to change things?

Get players that can actually play defense. Too bad Doc is in love with his son and "stretch bigs".

My point was that we can do nothing about refs so we have to leave it out of the equation. What can we do to change things?

Move the franchise to Seattle and rename it

DJ yells "god damn it" on just about every play whether he is touched or not. When you do that, refs tend to look the other way.

*We don't turn the ball over at all #7 in the league
• We hold teams to 44% shooting #7 in the league

*We also are #1 in 3 pt defense

If i had to look at the overall picture of the fouls I would have to look very closely at the offensive rebounding issues as we give up the 2nd most in the league. We don't close out the rebound and so our defense which is good when set is compromised and we end up fouling.

I am trying to be objective. And there have only been two teams I have followed closely for the past 15 years or so: the Lakers and the Clippers. The Lakers, over most of that time span, could count on home court reffing -- both in number and in critical calls -- as if the refs were part of the team. The Lakers had their own personal ref in Violet Palmer for crying out loud. With Clippers reffing, you can get rid of at least three of those Lakers titles.

As to the Clippers, I see only bias against. It goes from the egregious, "is he betting on the game" bias of Tony Brothers to the more benign -- but important nonetheless -- prejudice against Blake Griffin, who never gets the "Superstar Rule" used in his favor. Add in that we are the only team that does not get Home Ref Advantage and you can see that it is not excuse making.

As I have said in another trail, I do not know how ANY team can overcome a four - eight point handicap in a series of potentially twenty-eight games. The percentages, much like the loan shark's vigorish -- will grind you to dust.

Why do they supposedly target us for the last few years?? What's your theory and got any info to back that up. Just curious.

At least we got rid of Ryan Hollins. He was a foul machine!

Why do they supposedly target us for the last few years?? What's your theory and got any info to back that up. Just curious.

Yea the info is the fouling disparity. Unlike most I actually researched nba ref game rigging and how it's done, and the tactics used. It's hard talking to people who have not because they can't see it when it's happening because they don't understand how it works .

That's why you see fans say "oh don't blame the refs", or "we shouldn't have been in a position to let the refs decide it ".

Then you get an actual nba ref of 13 years come on out and say he use to rig games at an "85% success rate".. Which means it doesn't matter how good you are they can determine the outcome of a game 85% of the time.

Like I said it's hard to discuss it with most fans because they don't do the research. They think it's pure on "how many times one team went to the line", when it's a lot more sophisticated than that.

If any of you saw louville vs UCI, that was a prime example of ref rigging, and I told my girlfriend exactly was about to happen.

He kid gets bulldozed with 5.7 seconds left to tie the game and they don't call a foul, and the other team was doing an intentional foul at that.

It's deep man, and I've done the research, and you can too because it's all on the internet now.

Most of the time ref rigging isn't about wins and losses but about point spreads. Which is why NCAA is the most rigged organization on the planet when it comes to sports.

A ref rigging games for point spreads is not the same thing as the refs in the league as a whole being out to get the Clippers.

1) A ref was able to rig games

2) Therefore the refs as a whole are in a conspiracy to screw the Clippers

That's a big jump and the correlation doesn't flow. We'd need a lot more than that to start making the second conclusion.

Also fouls shouldn't necessarily be even in games. If a team has players that foul a lot, they shouldn't foul as little as a team like San Antonio who specifically looks to avoid giving up easy fouls and FT's. It's like FT's, fans always complain about FT disparities, but there's nothing that requires FT's to be even in a game. It's only an issue if one team is consistently getting a certain call while the other isn't, but a team can't go out and take 90% of their shots outside 15 feet and then start wondering why a team that's driving all game is shooting more FT's than them.

That's a hard one to conclude wouldn't you think? Last season the team was poor at defensive rebounding but they didn't foul as much, so the correlation isn't there.

Where did you get #1 in 3PT defense though? From what I saw:

24th in opponent makes

26th in opponent attempts

15th in opponent 3PT%

Need a little more explanation then that before I can take that leap. Got more examples/hard evidence besides one bad apple you can layout?

We are 15th in opponent 3PT% @ 34.6%

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-three-point-pct

Are some games rigged and not by the refs? A definite YES. See how the refs (read league) stole the series from the Kings and gave it to the LAL

There are things that you can control and things you cannot control and it's folly to dwell on the things you can't like refs. It's a waste of time. You can control what you to overcome of a disadvantage that you have. If it still isn't enough well at least you gave it your best.

Clippers slipped last night,didn't let them double us up on the fouls. Maybe only 50% more then us.

Not to be rude, but are you seriously blaming all this on the refs? You're making this assumption directly based on foul ratio without even trying to find the real reason. It's like saying refs are biased because 76ers winning ratio is 1:4.

I can guarantee you that every team's fans are complaining about the refereeing. They do make mistakes and negatively affect the outcome of games for EVERY TEAM, but nowhere frequent enough that it impacts the stats Agent provided.