Is this the same guy who they suspected of undermining then Head Coach Jason
Kidd?
cleepers CNS MVP X3Posts: 11039votes: 157
09/25/2014 - 11:34 AM
Rivers, Woodson, Frank, Cassell... best coaching lineup in the league.
Clipperfan9 Clipper All-StarPosts: 1480votes: 1
09/25/2014 - 11:36 AM
ArtMaggot wrote:
Is this the same guy who they suspected of undermining then Head Coach Jason Kidd?
I think Jason Kidd was more of the issue than anything. The league clamors about how
good Frank was defensively, but I've been looking at his team stats and only once was
he in the top 5 of Drtg and Points allowed. He seems like a mediocre head
coach.
ArtMaggot Clipper StarterPosts: 484votes: 23
09/25/2014 - 11:37 AM
As long as he is not toxic to our team and follows the program.
itsLuigi Clipper All-StarPosts: 1313votes: 4
09/25/2014 - 12:18 PM
I wonder what our offense will look like now that gentry is gone? Still a great
coaching staff though
loyalclipfan Clipper StarterPosts: 849Location: Mira Loma, Ca. 91752votes: 3
09/25/2014 - 01:09 PM
cleepers wrote:
Rivers, Woodson, Frank, Cassell... best coaching lineup in the league.
When did we make Sam cassel official, I missed that?
cleepers CNS MVP X3Posts: 11039votes: 157
09/25/2014 - 01:26 PM
loyalclipfan wrote:
When did we make Sam cassel official, I missed that?
It was a while ago. I think Washington were fishing for a draft pick, but Doc said
"f*ck that" and sent 'em Howard Eisley instead.
TheDude CNS MVP X1Posts: 3226votes: 47
09/25/2014 - 01:59 PM
Seriously great staff. I was pissed at Lue and Gentry and a little bit at Doc for not negotiating
harder with them. But we got 2 HC's and one of my all-time favorite Clip players to
replace them.
Wouldn't be surprised if Woodson moved on after a year or two but Franks and Cassell probably
hang around long term, which would be great.
I think Jason Kidd was more of the issue than anything. The league clamors about how
good Frank was defensively, but I've been looking at his team stats and once was he in
the top 5 of Drtg and Points allowed. He seems like a mediocre head coach.
I was listening to 980 on the way home from school, and they said that Frank is
brilliant. they said he's one of the few coaches in the NBA hat can draw up a play in an
instant. his fall from grace in Brooklyn stems more from Jason Kidd, whose
unorthodox coaching was called into question by Frank. considering Jason Kidd had
no previous coaching experience, and other things like soda gate it's not out of the
question to conclude that Jason Kidd should not have been given a head coaching job
so prematurely. Frank quickly questioned his coaching style, and this led Kid to
keep him sitting on a bench and not contributing on the coaching
cleepers CNS MVP X3Posts: 11039votes: 157
09/25/2014 - 05:37 PM
^ Yup. Seems like the Nets were something of a clusterfuck last year. Honestly, I'd be
worried if Frank hadn't made waves.
pageC4 CNS MVP X2Posts: 9843votes: 56
09/25/2014 - 05:42 PM
cleepers wrote:
^ Yup. Seems like the Nets were something of a clusterfuck last year. Honestly, I'd
be worried if Frank hadn't made waves.
The guys on 980 said that Frank asked Kidd something along like "What the f#ck
are you doing, you can't do that." To which Kidd got offended by, but Frank
being a more tenured coach was probably in the right. And seeing how much of a jackass
Kidd was I put money on Kidd being in the wrong
Agent0 CNS MVP X3Posts: 12036votes: 105
09/25/2014 - 08:51 PM
Good guy as a defensive coach. Was head coach of some top 5 Nets defensive teams 03-04 (4th
Drtg), 04-05 (7th Drtg), 05-06 (4th Drtg), but their defense went downhill from
06-07 on. Was great as the defensive coach for Boston with Doc (1st in Drtg).
Couldn't replicate similar success as a head coach with Detroit on the defensive
end.
namzug CNS MVP X1Posts: 2581Location: So Calvotes: 21
09/25/2014 - 11:18 PM
I think this is a great pick up. I've been wanting Frank on the staff for awhile and the
past experience between hm and Doc should really cement the defensive system down.
I'm still hesitant to buy in on Woodson and wondering who can fill Gentry's
shoes.
I think this is a great pick up. I've been wanting Frank on the staff for awhile and the
past experience between hm and Doc should really cement the defensive system down.
I'm still hesitant to buy in on Woodson and wondering who can fill Gentry's shoes.
Adding Frank is a great move. I read on Clipsnation that he was actually Doc's first choice
last summer over Gentry. It makes sense since Doc must have known the team's defense
was going to need a lot more work then the offense. In my opinion, we really don't need
another offensive specialist like Gentry right now. Offensively we're already
the best in the league and nearly the best of all time for that matter. Losing Gentry
doesn't mean our guys won't continue to run the same plays they already know.
Mastering the sort of defense that the championship Celtics were known for is going
to take a TON of time and attention by itself. There was an article in today's LA Times
where Doc was talking about game five and all of our defensive lapses in the closing
minutes- good read.
Adding Frank is a great move. I read on Clipsnation that he was actually Doc's first
choice last summer over Gentry. It makes sense since Doc must have known the team's
defense was going to need a lot more work then the offense. In my opinion, we really
don't need another offensive specialist like Gentry right now. Offensively we're
already the best in the league and nearly the best of all time for that matter. Losing
Gentry doesn't mean our guys won't continue to run the same plays they already know.
Mastering the sort of defense that the championship Celtics were known for is going
to take a TON of time and attention by itself. There was an article in today's LA Times
where Doc was talking about game five and all of our defensive lapses in the closing
minutes- good read.
that's a great point. we finished with the league's best offensee, but the league's
7 best defense. it's safe to say that we probably won't have the league's best
offense again, but finding ways to improve that defense, while staying in the top 3
in offense may get us an overall better result.
tense2 CNS MVP X3Posts: 14209votes: 32
09/26/2014 - 04:02 PM
Agent0 wrote:
Good guy as a defensive coach. Was head coach of some top 5 Nets defensive teams 03-04
(4th Drtg), 04-05 (7th Drtg), 05-06 (4th Drtg), but their defense went downhill
from 06-07 on. Was great as the defensive coach for Boston with Doc (1st in Drtg).
Couldn't replicate similar success as a head coach with Detroit on the defensive
end.
Actually his one year with Doc in Boston (2010-11) the Celtics were 2nd in Drtg. Still great
though
page, with good health, we have a chance to be an even better offense while still being able
to improve on defense.
Healthier Paul
Healthier Redick
CDR playing like last season > injured Dudley
Healthier Barnes > slow start Barnes
Blake should improve a little too
Davis and Hedo offensively over the early usage of Jamison and Mullens
Hawes much better on offense than any backup big from last
season
Better health and the additions / replacements would actually mean a better offensive
team than last season. Could be an even better 1st ranked offense and get into the top
5 on defense, but hey, 2nd or 3rd and being a top 3 defense is just as
good.
page, with good health, we have a chance to be an even better offense while still being able
to improve on defense.
Healthier Paul
Healthier Redick
CDR playing like last season > injured Dudley
Healthier Barnes > slow start Barnes
Blake should improve a little too
Davis and Hedo offensively over the early usage of Jamison and Mullens
Hawes much better on offense than any backup big from last
season
Better health and the additions / replacements would actually mean a better offensive
team than last season. Could be an even better 1st ranked offense and get into the top
5 on defense, but hey, 2nd or 3rd and being a top 3 defense is just as good.
I wouldn't mind a step down on offense if it meant moving up in defense. I think you're
right in terms of position comparisons from last year, but with Gentry gone,
Collison gone, and a similar year by Griffin and Crawford being less likely we may
stay about the same offensively or just move down a slight bit. At the very worst we
become the leagues 2nd best offense, but you're correct in that its more likely we
can see an even better offense than last year. I am most excited
About the possible defensive improvements to be honest with you. Not just additions like
Udoh, CDR, and Hawes but also what Lawrence Frank will bring, and as Severns said at a
fan event "last year three players did not buy in
defensively"
Can you imagine how great this ball club could be if those three Severns alluded to
decided to contribute on the defensive end? That's what will be the difference this
year, and I think it's very possible.
namzug CNS MVP X1Posts: 2581Location: So CalJoined: 01/10/2013votes: 21
09/26/2014 - 09:10 PM
I just don't want us to regress to an Iso offense, and if Frank is running the defense
what is Woodson doing? I think Doc can do a good job on offense himself, but I don't
know about the other coaches. I love Cassell being back with the team and liked Frank
last year as well as now; Woodson is the only one I'm not high on.
Regardless I think we will be good. I'm not fretting and think the sky is falling or anything like
that. I think we will be good. I think Defensively we will be much better and am
thinking CDR will be a steal. I also think CJ is going to pass expectations (which are
very low after last year with Reggie). Our front court depth is crazy now. I think
Collison and Farmar are very similar players (as long as Farmar puts in defensive
effort); neither is a defensive star and while Collison can drive better than
Farmar the opposite can be said in regards to shooting. I would like another PG, but
if we don't I'm ok with an Ingles or Hedo running point duties with a mixed line
up.
I just don't want us to regress to an Iso offense, and if Frank is running the defense
what is Woodson doing? I think Doc can do a good job on offense himself, but I don't
know about the other coaches. I love Cassell being back with the team and liked Frank
last year as well as now; Woodson is the only one I'm not high on.
Regardless I think we will be good. I'm not fretting and think the sky is falling or anything like
that. I think we will be good. I think Defensively we will be much better and am
thinking CDR will be a steal. I also think CJ is going to pass expectations (which are
very low after last year with Reggie). Our front court depth is crazy now. I think
Collison and Farmar are very similar players (as long as Farmar puts in defensive
effort); neither is a defensive star and while Collison can drive better than
Farmar the opposite can be said in regards to shooting. I would like another PG, but
if we don't I'm ok with an Ingles or Hedo running point duties with a mixed line up.
im glad you brought up that last point. Sometimes a player than can average about 4
assists per game regardless of position is highly valuable. Last year between
Griffin and Collison they both combined to avergae close to the assist number that
Paul does on his own. Hence why Lebrons teams do so well despite having shitty point
guards. Ingles does have a pretty good passing ability, and I think that will come
into play
Agent0 CNS MVP X3Posts: 12036votes: 105
09/27/2014 - 01:45 AM
namzug wrote:
I just don't want us to regress to an Iso offense, and if Frank is running the defense
what is Woodson doing? I think Doc can do a good job on offense himself, but I don't
know about the other coaches. I love Cassell being back with the team and liked Frank
last year as well as now; Woodson is the only one I'm not high on.
Regardless I think we will be good. I'm not fretting and think the sky is falling or anything like
that. I think we will be good. I think Defensively we will be much better and am
thinking CDR will be a steal. I also think CJ is going to pass expectations (which are
very low after last year with Reggie). Our front court depth is crazy now. I think
Collison and Farmar are very similar players (as long as Farmar puts in defensive
effort); neither is a defensive star and while Collison can drive better than
Farmar the opposite can be said in regards to shooting. I would like another PG, but
if we don't I'm ok with an Ingles or Hedo running point duties with a mixed line up.
Woodson is clearly there for moral support, and marketing, duh!
I'm pretty sure the team is going to run mostly the same sets as last season. If Frank runs
the defense and Woodson the offense, Doc will have nothing to do . Woodson is similar
to Mike Brown in some aspects. They are guys that seem to do a lot better as assistant
coaches just giving ideas and helping tweak things than as head coaches where they
are making all the decisions.
Keep in mind that Doc is also our President of Basketball Duties - there are a lot of behind
the scenes demands that he has, which means it's great that we have such a strong
supporting staff that can 'lighten the load' so to speak.
In regards to our projected performance in offense/defense this
year, I'd just like to say that there is literally no way we regress offensively. We
have our guys healthy, and even last year, with an injured starting line-up and with
us being CP3-less for a long stretch, we were juggernauts (with one of the worst
three point shooting % in the league).
This year we are going to tear up the league with our offense for several reasons:
Our guys are healthy, J-duds is gone.
Our bench wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination; we had great individual
performances, but no cohesion or flow. Now we have a full unit with offensive
capabilities and a month of training camp and preseason to gel.
Blake gets another offseason without distraction or limitation. Don't be
surprised to find him posting a 25/9/3.5 stat-line.
Cp3 is coming into the season with a new understanding of his role. Expect his 3pt
shooting in the playoffs to carry over into this season.
The concern for us should be defense. Our starters were absolutely amazing in
stretches (during games) last season, but our bench ALWAYS let us down. We all saw
our starters make heaps of defensive mistakes last year; slow rotations, over
rotations, and no WING REBOUNDING. These downfalls of our defense are not
permanent by any means, and with another year to really learn the system, we're are
going to be so much better.
A few defensive things to note this season:
Blake wasn't a net-positive by any means for 90% of last season. The
last....
Top two offense for sure. Top five defense hopefully. That will affect our season
more.
loyalclipfan Clipper StarterPosts: 849Location: Mira Loma, Ca. 91752votes: 3
09/27/2014 - 01:31 PM
IF we do get better defensively, which we should, THAT means less offensive
rebounds by our opponents, more turnovers by our opponents, AND lower scores by our
opponents! In other words, words, as long
as....
IF we do get better defensively, which we should, THAT means less offensive
rebounds by our opponents, more turnovers by our opponents, AND lower scores by our
opponents! In other words, words, as long as we have FEWER injuries this year
compared to last season, we should be on track to win 65 games this season and have THE
best record in the league! Bar NO-ONE! Has anyone else figured this out? AND a side
note, with STEVE as our new owner, maybe, just maybe, Adam silver will tell the refs
to be just a little nicer to US, especially in the playoffs, hmmmm, maybe?
injuries are tricky issue. Actually they're quite common. Always prepare for them
and acquire depth. Chris Paul will miss some games, Farmer will miss some as well. We
just have to pray that the injuries are staggered and not all at once. If they are
staggered we can achieve a great record.
IF we do get better defensively, which we should, THAT means less offensive
rebounds by our opponents, more turnovers by our opponents, AND lower scores by our
opponents! In other words, words, as long as we have FEWER injuries this year
compared to last season, we should be on track to win 65 games this season and have THE
best record in the league! Bar NO-ONE! Has anyone else figured this out? AND a side
note, with STEVE as our new owner, maybe, just maybe, Adam silver will tell the refs
to be just a little nicer to US, especially in the playoffs, hmmmm, maybe?
65 games is hard to achieve in the current Western Conference because there are so
many good teams. 60 wins would be nice, and statistically our production was more of
a 59 win team last season, which suggests luck didn't go our way as much last season,
but that happens. I think healthy we can win 62 games.
Injuries are something that happen here and there, what we hope for is no extended
injuries.
Blake / DJ are guys who have generally been 82 game players, hopefully that
continues
Hawes also doesn't get injured often 500/558 career games played
CP played 62 games last season. The three previous seasons had ha played 91% of his
games. So anywhere from 70-75 games or more would be fine.
Redick played 35 games last season, he had played 88% of his games the previous 3 seasons, so
similarly, about 70-73 or more games would be solid.
Jamal Crawford and Matt Barnes are harder to gauge because they also have age as a factor,
but for his career, Jamal doesn't usually miss more than about 6 games a season, he
missed 13 last season
Barnes has been sort of up and down with injuries, but he had still played 85% of his games the
previous three seasons and gave us 80 games in
12-13
So I think in terms of injuries, we ideally should have a better situation than last
year. I'm not expecting 80+ games from everyone except for Blake/DJ, but I think a
lot of our main guys should be able to give 70+ games, though more importantly we
don't want them to have any more than minor injury going into the playoffs...and
Dudley playing 74 games was not even a real thing last season because if we had
another healthy SF he would probably have played closer to 60 games last season 14
less than he did.
(Regular season: OKC - .244 / GSW - .186)
12th in FG% at rim = 68.5% (Regular season: OKC - 66.8% / GSW - 65.4%)
14th in percentage of opponent FG at rim = 29.1% (Regular season: OKC - 28.2% / GSW -
26.4%)
The overall rankings don't mean as much in the playoffs because everyone is playing
different opponents as opposed to regular season where for the most part everyone
plays everyone else somewhat equally. Regular season we weren't bad, not great,
but not bad. Some numbers for OKC just against us aren't available because
basketball reference has whole playoff numbers, and they played MEM and SAS too,
but GS is easy since they only played us.
Post-season we have to look at it in comparison to competition and what they were
doing in the regular season. Also have to take into account that Westbrook played 46
games, and the Thunder's Ortg with Westbrook on was 113.5 Ortg, while it was only
108.7 with him off, so their regular season Ortg was an underestimate of their
actual offensive production if they have Westbrook which would
probably....