Shaun Livingston Addresses Comparisons to SGA.

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Clippersfan86
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https://theathletic.com/651111/2018/11/13/qa-shaun-livingston-on-compa risons-with-shai-gilgeous-alexander-sgas-potential-sam-cassells-impact -on-both/ Amazing Q&A with Jovan Buha and Shaun Livingston. These articles make subscription 100% worth it. Out of respect to Jovan I'll only copy a couple answers, you'll need a sub for the rest. Jovan: A lot of people have compared Shai Gilgeous-Alexander to a younger version of you. What do you think of that comparison? What similarities do you see? "I mean obviously he’s a long, tall guard. But you see (assistant coach and former Clippers guard) Sam Cassell over there on the sideline. That’s similar to how Sam played. You know what I mean? Like just working on that. You know,....


toohipcliptoslip
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Livingston was not in the same universe as SGA


clipperboy24
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That’s pretty cool of Livingston to say SGA has the potential to be a lot better than him. Love his upside, SGA fan club here!


jarca
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SGA is way more advanced at 19 than Shaun.

Physically way superior too


pageC4
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clipperboy24 wrote:
That’s pretty cool of Livingston to say SGA has the potential to be a lot better than him. Love his upside, SGA fan club here!
Yes, it is nice to hear positive feedback from vets. I'm excited to watch SGA develop. If he adds a shot to his arsenal...watch out!


JudahDub
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pageC4 wrote:
Yes, it is nice to hear positive feedback from vets. I'm excited to watch SGA develop. If he adds a shot to his arsenal...watch out!
. I don’t think he’s shooting that bad, though his release could be quicker and more fluid. I did not look for the numbers and what his shooting percentages and true shooting percentage is but I think he can be a decent shooter in the not so distant shooter. I think he needs to be learning from Milos so he can pass better.


pageC4
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JudahDub wrote:
. I don’t think he’s shooting that bad, though his release could be quicker and more fluid. I did not look for the numbers and what his shooting percentages and true shooting percentage is but I think he can be a decent shooter in the not so distant shooter. I think he needs to be learning from Milos so he can pass better.
one of the things I was really excited about was his opportunity to learn from some guys in the NBA that do some things well. I had mentioned that I would be awesome if he learned a little of that defensive grit from Beverley, some flashy passes from Milos, or some shooting from Lou. He really is in a great position to succeed.


SamMays
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Livingston was going to be a great player. Without the injury, he would have been fun to watch develop. You could see that he had an unnatural awareness of how to play the game that made him special. SGA has that same thing.

We will never know exactly how good Livingston would have been, but he would have been outstanding.


LAC_12
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Juicy subject... the comparison may be off. But there are similarities, I suppose.


LAC_12
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SamMays wrote:
Livingston was going to be a great player. Without the injury, he would have been fun to watch develop. You could see that he had an unnatural awareness of how to play the game that made him special. SGA has that same thing.

We will never know exactly how good Livingston would have been, but he would have been outstanding.

I agree... actually I give that edge a bit more to Shaun. He really had/has an eye for a play before it was even developed.


Clemenza
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I like Shaun, he had a nice future, but he was also part of that -"from high school straight to the NBA" hype train and a lot of those players fizzled out while some simply became nice role players. Kobe, KG, Bron and a few others were the only ones that really became stars. Shaun didn't put in much work into his body and probably would've gotten exposed if he went to Duke like he was going to. I like SGA better. He's more detail oriented. Hungrier. He's like the next Kobe too me.


Agent0
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Agree fully with Clemenza. I've always been a fan of Shaun, I wanted us to bring him back after he recovered from injury, but SGA is far better and has much more realistic potential vs theoretical potential.

Shaun was 21 years old in his third season and wasn't even as good as SGA is now. What huge jumps were we expecting? You look at what guys like Bosh, Durant, LeBron, etc were doing at 21. Bosh was averaging 23/9/3 by the time he was 21. Even a late bloomer like Derozan, his second season at 21 was averaging 17/4/2 even though he wasn't good at that time.

Shaun's injury got people to overrate his realistic potential vs his theoretical potential. This is what always happens, and if he got injured as a rookie, maybe we could do that more, but he played 3 seasons, and in his third season he still just showed flashes but just looked like a good starter, not a superstar or even All-Star.

He was a nice and flashy passer at times, height gave him nice vision, but he was never an amazing playmaker. He had one year of NBA experience his second season compared to rookie 20 year old CP3, and CP3 was FAR advanced in every area as a PG. He was never much of a scorer. He was a very solid defender and maintained that, but I think without injury this is where he could have been better. Obviously the outside shot never developed also. He missed about a year and a half and came back with some improved skills, and outside of being maybe a little better if he never got injured, he really ended up settling into basically the type of player he would have become even without injury.


ClipperPostman
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Clemenza wrote:
I like Shaun, he had a nice future, but he was also part of that -"from high school straight to the NBA" hype train and a lot of those players fizzled out while some simply became nice role players. Kobe, KG, Bron and a few others were the only ones that really became stars. Shaun didn't put in much work into his body and probably would've gotten exposed if he went to Duke like he was going to. I like SGA better. He's more detail oriented. Hungrier. He's like the next Kobe too me.

I wouldn’t call it a hype train. Of the 45 players ever drafted from high school most of them had good careers. The success rate of the players drafted from high school is really high.


jarca
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ClipperPostman wrote:
I wouldn’t call it a hype train. Of the 45 players ever drafted from high school most of them had good careers. The success rate of the players drafted from high school is really high.

That was his point I think. Most straight from HS turned out to be good role players but very few turned out to be superstars.

Shaun didn’t show anything number wise that he was about to make that jumps to superstardom in the future. His highlights were great but stats say otherwise


ClipperPostman
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jarca wrote:
That was his point I think. Most straight from HS turned out to be good role players but very few turned out to be superstars.

Shaun didn’t show anything number wise that he was about to make that jumps to superstardom in the future. His highlights were great but stats say otherwise

There are very few superstars period. Even number one draft picks that killed it in college. The ratio of high school players that turned into superstars/All stars is staggeringly high.

Kobe, Tmac, Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Andrew Bynum, Monte Ellis, Amare Stoudamire, Al Jefferson, Jermaine O’Neal, Darryl Dawkins

Out of 45 high school players in history that’s a staggeringly high star ratio.

Compare that to guys who were top college draft picks, how many of them became super stars. 5 of those guys in that list are HOFers. 2 are in the conversation for GOAT.

Drafting from high school had a very high success rate.


clipperboy24
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ClipperPostman wrote:
There are very few superstars period. Even number one draft picks that killed it in college. The ratio of high school players that turned into superstars/All stars is staggeringly high.

Kobe, Tmac, Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Andrew Bynum, Monte Ellis, Amare Stoudamire, Al Jefferson, Jermaine O’Neal, Darryl Dawkins

Out of 45 high school players in history that’s a staggeringly high star ratio.

Compare that to guys who were top college draft picks, how many of them became super stars. 5 of those guys in that list are HOFers. 2 are in the conversation for GOAT.

Drafting from high school had a very high success rate.

It’s not really a fair comparison though, because all of those players would have been the top 5 recruits in their class and if you look at the success of top 5 recruits it’s gotta be pretty high.

But I agree that SGA has much more offensive potential and defensive potential than Livingston. Livingston was a good player but looked like he would peak out at 15ppg, 6-7apg and 5rpg. Solid stats, but I could see SGA possibly averaging that (maybe less assists) this year! We got a star and the league is already taking notice


Agent0
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ClipperPostman wrote:
There are very few superstars period. Even number one draft picks that killed it in college. The ratio of high school players that turned into superstars/All stars is staggeringly high.

Kobe, Tmac, Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Andrew Bynum, Monte Ellis, Amare Stoudamire, Al Jefferson, Jermaine O’Neal, Darryl Dawkins

Out of 45 high school players in history that’s a staggeringly high star ratio.

Compare that to guys who were top college draft picks, how many of them became super stars. 5 of those guys in that list are HOFers. 2 are in the conversation for GOAT.

Drafting from high school had a very high success rate.

Yea, the star / superstar ratio is not bad, and that obviously makes sense since many of the types of players that would come out of high school were usually the phenoms that were almost guaranteed stars. It was usually like the #1-3 player in the class, who are generally the superstars anyways.

It was generally 1-2 players a year until the early 2000's. It was also generally bigs and wings that came out of high school, and I remember the skepticism about PG's coming straight out of highschool. Telfair definitely didn't help that skepticism even though the doorway got closed.

Like mentioned, it was like 1-2 players a year, mostly bigs, then 2003 and 2004 teams went wild and we had 5 and 8 guys drafted respectively. Out of the 5 in 2003, we had LeBron James, then the next best player would be Kendrick Perkins. In 2004, they all went in the top 20 and did pretty well, all but Robert Swift and Telfair had decent careers, but those were two taken in the lottery, and that's part of the problem. Evaluating potential against college players is not super clear already, but now trying to do it against highschool competition, and that happens. That's when teams became more cautious and started waiting until the 2nd round.


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