Clippers Sign Luc Mbah a Moute (P. 2)

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Agent0
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ClipperPostman wrote:
They didn’t feel either of those guys were worth it. I like Luc but he was absolute **** in the playoffs. They had to bench him it was so bad. That is more of a factor why they didn’t bring him back. Ariza isn’t worth $15 million to them after he looked like complete **** in he playoffs as well. Not sure why people think they needed them to get within one game of the championship. They won in spite of those guys.
Luc had a shoulder injury which is why he didn't pay well. It actually wasn't....


Agent0
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ohMEohMy! wrote:
That's a good point. I guess I was under the impression that we were trying to clear some cap space, or that we would stretch his $6mil contract over the next few years.
I think the team would prefer to just rid themselves of the contract this season than to have small amounts of it lingering on in future seasons and affect g future cap. They aren't trying to make any big signings this year, so it would be bad to make that contract live on as dead cap.


Keatonsays
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Love the pickup, but it makes me regret losing DJ for nothing even more. Shai - Avery - Luc - DJ would've made a fantastic defensive lineup. Find a way to pull off the Kawhi trade, and you're talking about something Dangerous.

Oh well! Not sure what we're doing but I can't be mad about this move. Definitely makes us more competitive, defensively.


clipper*joe
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One would assume the Rockets were told he was going to get $15 million before signing with the Suns which would just be complete conjecture. Ariza wasn't a restricted free agent so it's safe to assume Rockets had no way of knowing what he was offered. It implies the Rockets knew what the Suns offered beforehand. I just don't buy it. Letting go of a core starting piece on a 1yr/15 million contract is just plain dumb.. Who knows, maybe a 10-12 million for one year would have surely kept him there. But again, the luxury tax loomed if they would have given something similar to keep him. It didn't need to be a multi-year contract for a 33yr old.

By the way, I completely agree that a multi-year contract for a 33yr old is a bad move unless you're LBJ...ONLY. But ironically, they're in this mess precisely for giving a 33yr old, injury prone player a massive 4yr contract. LOL!

This is how absurd it is. CP3 is making more than the MVP of the league. More than the best player in the lague (LeBron). That alone is mind-boggling.:

Chris Paul signed a 4 year / $159,730,592 contract with the Houston Rockets, including $159,730,592 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $39,932,648. In 2018-19, Paul will earn a base salary of $35,654,150, while carrying a cap hit of $35,654,150 and a dead cap value of $159,730,592.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/houston-roc ... paul-2609/

No worries, they're saving what little money they have to being in Melo for defense and the 3pt shot.


Agent0
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I believe Ariza wanted a 12+ million per year multi year deal from the Rockets. Probably would have taken a one year $15 million deal from them, but they didn't want to give him either of those contracts, maybe if they weren't paying Anderson $20 million for another two seasons, they could stomach Ariza at $15 million if it is just one year. Paying Paul vs Ariza is just two totally different things though. If Ariza was a higher impact player or was asking for a more reasonable contract, they would have given it to him. They gave Tucker a 4 year deal while he's 32-35. It's actually the Ryan Anderson contract that is their Achilles heel as we have to look at contract vs value to the team and winning. Paul meets that (for now), while Anderson comes nowhere close. LeBron's contract is due to how much cap the Lakers had available, it's like $1-2 million per year less than full max, but didn't care, obviously his true value is like $55 million, but it's not allowed. LeBron makes so much in endorsements that it's quite irrelevant to him. Mike Conley was making more than a lot of people for a little while, but that's just the nature of getting your contact when the cap has any sort of increase, your Mac is higher than everyone else until the next season crop of max FA's get their contracts. Rockets will be another team to have fun thinking old Melo can bring positive value, lol. Just some more capology, a likely reason why Houston might be keeping the MLE for Melo is that even though he will be getting paid by OKC and can take the minimum no problem, if they sign him at the minimum, the max salary they can give him next....


LAC_12
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We bring back Mbah a Moute… Not the most exciting news, but he can play. And it is an attractive contract.

Joe brings back CP3 into the discussion... classic. All I got to say is that superstars will get superstar level contracts. And superstars will help lead their teams to the post season.

Hoping a one year place-holder in Mbah a Moute nets us another superstar not named Paul so maybe some fans can get a chance to like them, and for us to get back into the playoffs.


Mistwell3
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It's not a non-sequitur to bring up CP3s new contract though. It's why we got Mbah.


clipper*joe
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LAC_12 wrote:
We bring back Mbah a Moute… Not the most exciting news, but he can play. And it is an attractive contract.

Joe brings back CP3 into the discussion... classic. All I got to say is that superstars will get superstar level contracts. And superstars will help lead their teams to the post season.

Hoping a one year place-holder in Mbah a Moute nets us another superstar not named Paul so maybe some fans can get a chance to like them, and for us to get back into the playoffs.

LAC12, you call me out and then proceed to post on a thread of an ex-clipper? The same guy who was posting threads about BG months after he left? That is what I call classic. But here is the thing:

I said what could/would happen and I specifically mentioned Luc and Ariza months ago. I said it would be a case about robbing peter to pay paul and darn if that isn't what happened. By the way, I mentioned CP3 because, IMO, his contract enabled us to get back Luc. So if you want to split hairs, I brought it up because I think it relates to our signing. Sorry if it bothers you but next time, don't call me out about bringing up ex-clippers when on your very NEXT POST, you go to a thread about an ex-Clipper and proceed to do the same thing. Sorry my man, I like you and all but there is a hint of hypocrisy going on in here.

it's the off-season so people need to loosen up a bit.


Agent0
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Mistwell3 wrote:
It's not a non-sequitur to bring up CP3s new contract though. It's why we got Mbah.
I explained it earlier, but it didn't make too much sense for it to be related to Paul's contract, unless Houston doesn't understand the salary cap rules, which we know they definitely do. Houston was willing to give Ariza what they felt was his market value, $7-8M/year and then $2.8M to Luc, use their $5.3M MLE, and give Capela $15M/year, all in addition to Paul and already giving Green the minimum which has like a $1.5M cap hit. So all that, then all of....


WickaBaskets
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I can’t wait to see this team in action regular season. If we just lock in on D And just grind hard, this team could earn some respect. It may not be pretty offensively many times but I love how we have players that hustle and players that can switch and guard multiple seasons. Should be fun hard basketball


WickaBaskets
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Multiple positions***


Agent0
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Agreed, Luc was probably my favorite Clipper in recent seasons. Yes, he shouldn't be a big minute starter, and he has his limitations with shooting, but great defender, at multiple positions (except against Joe Johnson in the playoffs, lol), works hard, never complains about his role, great teammate, just all round good guy to have on a team. Both us and Houston signed him as a last signing of the season, and just like our fans did, Houston fans underestimated his impact and he broke into both teams rotations and got good minutes


A7XDreamTheaterClipps
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Imagine Lucs POV of the Clippers. After 1 season and the team is COMPLETELY different and probably for the better. No more CP barking at people, Blake falling short to expectations, lockerroom being divided because of Austin. Now we have a younger, gritty team.


LAC_12
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clipper*joe wrote:
LAC12, you call me out and then proceed to post on a thread of an ex-clipper? The same guy who was posting threads about BG months after he left? That is what I call classic. But here is the thing:

I said what could/would happen and I specifically mentioned Luc and Ariza months ago. I said it would be a case about robbing peter to pay paul and darn if that isn't what happened. By the way, I mentioned CP3 because, IMO, his contract enabled us to get back Luc. So if you want to split hairs, I brought it up because I think it relates to our signing. Sorry if it bothers you but next time, don't call me out about bringing up ex-clippers when on your very NEXT POST, you go to a thread about an ex-Clipper and proceed to do the same thing. Sorry my man, I like you and all but there is a hint of hypocrisy going on in here.

it's the off-season so people need to loosen up a bit.

Wasn't much of a call out, just think that you are going out a degree or two and talking about CP3 and Houston instead of Luc and the Clippers.

But you are 100% right... But isn't that the way the NBA works? Great players get paid more, and then GMs have to build around that contract. It is the way the NBA works.

I get it, its the offseason... carry on.


LAC_12
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Also just want to point out that I was replying to a comment on DJ who was literally a Clipper at the closing of this season, on a DJ oriented thread... just to respond to your quip.


LAC_12
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A7XDreamTheaterClipps wrote:
Imagine Lucs POV of the Clippers. After 1 season and the team is COMPLETELY different and probably for the better. No more CP barking at people, Blake falling short to expectations, lockerroom being divided because of Austin. Now we have a younger, gritty team.

The man is a Bruin... so we all know he is familiar with the city. But to ask you a personal question: would you rather deal with difficult players and win, or play on a team with softer personalities and lose?

Not that I think we are going to be atrocious, but it is going to be a step back from when he was last on the Clippers, and when he was on the Rockets (guess he didn't mind the barking that much ;D).

I can see A LOT more trades happening with this roster, because it doesn't seem too balanced. I like Luc, but he may be on the move when by seasons end. And if not him, other pieces... And ultimately, at the very end of the day, this is a very 2019 friendly contract. And he gets to come back to LA. win-win-win*.

*The Office reference


clipperboy24
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LAC_12 wrote:
Wasn't much of a call out, just think that you are going out a degree or two and talking about CP3 and Houston instead of Luc and the Clippers.

But you are 100% right... But isn't that the way the NBA works? Great players get paid more, and then GMs have to build around that contract. It is the way the NBA works.

I get it, its the offseason... carry on.

Just because Agent0 says it’s not CP3 related doesn’t mean that’s accurate. Tillman Fertita has a great net worth but at $3.5 billion, was he willing to spend $300mm on salary this year. When repeater taxes and everything else come into play it gets pricey. Why do you think the Thunder are willing to buy out Carmelo (yes there’s a player fit side too, but if he was on a good contract I bet they keep him).

Ariza signed a 1-year deal, that was maybe $6mm more than they wanted to pay him but most 1-year deals are inflated. We paid Luc $1.5mm more than he might have gotten at Houston, it seems they were trying to pinch pennies. Ennis who they signed is a pretty decent player and imo has more upside than Luc so I could see that taking precedence but Luc still had a good role, just think finances were more to play than advertised


LAC_12
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clipperboy24 wrote:
Just because Agent0 says it’s not CP3 related doesn’t mean that’s accurate. Tillman Fertita has a great net worth but at $3.5 billion, was he willing to spend $300mm on salary this year. When repeater taxes and everything else come into play it gets pricey. Why do you think the Thunder are willing to buy out Carmelo (yes there’s a player fit side too, but if he was on a good contract I bet they keep him).

Ariza signed a 1-year deal, that was maybe $6mm more than they wanted to pay him but most 1-year deals are inflated. We paid Luc $1.5mm more than he might have gotten at Houston, it seems they were trying to pinch pennies. Ennis who they signed is a pretty decent player and imo has more upside than Luc so I could see that taking precedence but Luc still had a good role, just think finances were more to play than advertised

Not sure why you replied to me... My point is that what HOU does with their finances and the reasoning belongs on a HOU board. Or in the NBA discussion section. Just thought that we should discuss Luc Mbah a Moute and his signing, or the Clippers' finances as a result.

As I mentioned, Joe can be completely right - and on some level is objectively right... More you pay one player, the less you can allocate to another. There can be many reasons why Ariza and Moute were not resigned at HOU, but I do not care about HOU and their roster.

All I tried to say is that I like Mbah a Moute, I think his contract is OK enough where he offers some value to the Clippers as a player OR as a trade chip. Either way I am happy, so that is my conclusion on this signing.


clipperboy24
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LAC_12 wrote:
Not sure why you replied to me... My point is that what HOU does with their finances and the reasoning belongs on a HOU board. Or in the NBA discussion section. Just thought that we should discuss Luc Mbah a Moute and his signing, or the Clippers' finances as a result.

As I mentioned, Joe can be completely right - and on some level is objectively right... More you pay one player, the less you can allocate to another. There can be many reasons why Ariza and Moute were not resigned at HOU, but I do not care about HOU and their roster.

All I tried to say is that I like Mbah a Moute, I think his contract is OK enough where he offers some value to the Clippers as a player OR as a trade chip. Either way I am happy, so that is my conclusion on this signing.

I replied to you because you said hat it was not appropriate to bring up the CP3 deal, but I firmly believe that deal allowed us to get Luc.


WickaBaskets
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I think Mike Scott is going to have a nice season with us. He looks like he can do a little bit of everything. Formidable


LAC_12
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clipperboy24 wrote:
I replied to you because you said hat it was not appropriate to bring up the CP3 deal, but I firmly believe that deal allowed us to get Luc.

Sure... while we are at it... also signing Harden to his last contract also disrupt the finances for the team... Matter of fact, everyone signed and not up for a new contract this year caused for HOU's free agency to shape the way it has. My point is that all that is HOU's free agency.


clipperboy24
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LAC_12 wrote:
Sure... while we are at it... also signing Harden to his last contract also disrupt the finances for the team... Matter of fact, everyone signed and not up for a new contract this year caused for HOU's free agency to shape the way it has. My point is that all that is HOU's free agency.

Man you are stubborn!


LuvMeSumMEE
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Quote:
EDIT: Like I was suggesting, this is what solidified us getting Luc:

They decided to save their MLE and got Ennis at the minimum. Still, Luc > Smile

Dang, Ennis on the cheap... appreciate Luc, but I like Ennis... he’s legit IMO. Gotta support my #805 guys


clipper*joe
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If Luc was dropped for James Ennis, one would have to suspend logic and believe Rockets agreed to sign Ennis before letting Luc go. The FA market just settled and it was either the Kings, or the Rocktes on the cheap for Ennis. Where would you go if you had to settle for peanuts due to lack of cap space from teams? I think Rockets were just the better team to settle on a one year contract to buy time...like most free agents who had to settle, or opt in to their final year due to lack of money in the market. In other words, it wasn't a calculated move. It's basically a one year contract on the cheap like players we used to get (i.e Collison).


Agent0
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No one was dropped, it's trying to have you cake and eat it too in a way. They wanted to sign a player that would require the MLE, but didn't want to use their MLE. They would probably have signed both Luc and Ennis if they could, but Luc wasn't taking $2.8M. The point I was making, and this is also to clipperboy24, isn't that money isn't a factor, it is, but that the Rockets going into the off-season had plans to pay Paul, their July 1 offer to Capela was 5 years / $85 million, $90 million with incentives, I'd assume they wanted to at least give Ariza $7-8M,just not $12M+, Luc $2.8M, Green at the minimum which is a $1.5M cap hit or so, and they possibly use their $5.3M MLE to sign someone (Carmelo it seems now). So they were going to do all that, which is much more expensive than what they will end up spending now with no Ariza, but then all of a sudden a $1.5M difference on a one year contract is the deciding factor for signing Luc? That doesn't make much sense does it?

Like I've explained already, if they pay Carmelo the minimum this season, it doesn't affect him money wise because OKC is paying him too, but they run into the exact same situation they just had with Luc if they decide to re-sign him next year. No bird rights, so they have to use their next years MLE, which gets rid of basically the only asset they have to sign players outside of minimum contracts. On the other hand, if they give Carmelo the MLE this season, they can give him a raise to $6.4M next season and then still have their next season MLE to spend. It's just some capology, though I think Melo sucks, but I guess it is fulfilling that ultimate plan for Paul that you have mentioned before Joe.


LAC_12
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clipperboy24 wrote:
Man you are stubborn!

I am just trying to make sense and order of things <3


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