Montrezl Harrell Re-Signs for 2 years/$12 Million (P. 4)

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Mistwell3
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So pretty much Sam thinks all injuries from last year were the norm for our players (though history says none of them were - all were out for longer than their typical averages) but also thinks the averages FOR ALL OTHER TEAMS will return to normal or even better their averages. That somehow we are magically the only team exempt from norms...oh wait no it's worse than that. He thinks all our players will regress even more I think (like Lou Williams), while all other teams improved (even though Vegas thinks 10 teams are worse than us this year...Vegas is wrong and all other teams improved except the Clippers), and all other teams will experience at worst their norms. Oh and Luc Mbah is a "marginal" NBA player and Mike Scott is what, worse than Willie Reed I guess in his mind? And I guess rookies from last year will not improve and new rookies this year will contribute to no additional wins or will even I guess result in more losses this year too?

This is nonsense. I understand you're feeling depressed about the team right now Sam, but these predictions you're making right now will not look good as the year progresses.


SamMays
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The loss of DJ will be huge and make up for almost any improvement re: Gallinari playing.


SamMays
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
Doesn't factor any leaps from young players or healthier Beverley+Bradley+Gallinari. Clippers could win 40+ and that would be very bad for our draft pick.

Oddly enough, one of the best things we have going for us is Doc, who did a great job last year of patching in lineups, playing kids like Thornwell and Evans and Wallace and Williams and somehow battling for a playoff spot down to the last week. And none of those young players listed above has half the promise of SGA and Robinson. Through all that though, we had DJ at the basket making people think and grabbing boards.

I think DJ will be missed more than many of us realize. We will be so weak defensively and offensively at the 4 and 5, it's going to kill us.


SamMays
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Mistwell3 wrote:
So pretty much Sam thinks all injuries from last year were the norm for our players (though history says none of them were - all were out for longer than their typical averages) but also thinks the averages FOR ALL OTHER TEAMS will return to normal or even better their averages. That somehow we are magically the only team exempt from norms...oh wait no it's worse than that. He thinks all our players will regress even more I think (like Lou Williams), while all other teams improved (even though Vegas thinks 10 teams are worse than us this year...Vegas is wrong and all other teams improved except the Clippers), and all other teams will experience at worst their norms. Oh and Luc Mbah is a "marginal" NBA player and Mike Scott is what, worse than Willie Reed I guess in his mind? And I guess rookies from last year will not improve and new rookies this year will contribute to no additional wins or will even I guess result in more losses this year too?

This is nonsense. I understand you're feeling depressed about the team right now Sam, but these predictions you're making right now will not look good as the year progresses.

Last year we started the season with a starting front court of Blake, DJ and Gallinari. This year we start with a front court of Gortat, Gallinari and Harris. Harris is not as good as Blake (though closer than one might have imagined) Gortat is not nearly as good as DJ and Gallinari is Gallinari. This is a big net minus on a team that wasn't a playoff team.

Last year our backcourt started the season with a rotation of Milos, Lou, Austin and Beverly. This year Milos will likely be gone, so he and Austin will be replaced by SGA, Robinson and Bradley. If the rookies are good (and I like them) this is an upgrade, in my view not as big as the downgrade up front.

Then add in the loss of DJ and Blake, replaced by Gortat and Gallinari at the 4/5. Blake wasn't a great defender, but he was a lot better than Gallinari there. DJ is enormously better than Gortat. Then bring in rebounding. DJ was spectacular as compared to Gortat, as Blake is as compared to Gallinari. So our defense and rebounding in the front court is going to be dramatically worse than what we started with last year.

I just don't see how anyone can predict this team to be as good as we were last year going into the season. Injuries, as with all teams, will take their course.

Many have said 35 wins. I have said, given good health, that is perfectly reasonable. Given Gallinari's history, and the fact that Beverly and Bradley are coming back from injuries, I am not that optimistic. What is so absurd or "nonsense" about that?

And I am not depressed in the least. I think this rebuild is exactly what we need to do. The way we are going about it is just right and I am optimistic about the two new rookies given what I have seen so far.


Clemenza
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SamMays wrote:
The loss of DJ will be huge and make up for almost any improvement re: Gallinari playing.

I do wish DJ was still on this team but his loss won't be that huge imo. He still took a lot of nights off, missed a lot of easy bunnies under the basket, and although he improved his free throw shooting the years of Hack-a-DJ had us pulling our hair out. Love DJ and I hope we retire his number some day but lets not act like he was an all time great at center.


SamMays
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Clemenza wrote:
I do wish DJ was still on this team but his loss won't be that huge imo. He still took a lot of nights off, missed a lot of easy bunnies under the basket, and although he improved his free throw shooting the years of Hack-a-DJ had us pulling our hair out. Love DJ and I hope we retire his number some day but lets not act like he was an all time great at center.

Wait until you see how many plays Gortat takes off.Smile


jarca
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Clemenza wrote:
I do wish DJ was still on this team but his loss won't be that huge imo. He still took a lot of nights off, missed a lot of easy bunnies under the basket, and although he improved his free throw shooting the years of Hack-a-DJ had us pulling our hair out. Love DJ and I hope we retire his number some day but lets not act like he was an all time great at center.

Want To bet? They won 41 games last year. I’ll give this team under 38 wins. It’s pretty much the same team as last year with the exception of Dj and Austin.

20 bucks just a friendly one


Mistwell3
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SamMays wrote:
The loss of DJ will be huge and make up for almost any improvement re: Gallinari playing.

Clippers won 42 games last year. We won more games without Blake Griffin than with him, so technically if you project from the team we have now plus DJ over the entire season it was better than 42 games. But whatever.

"Almost any" improvement being erased with the loss of DJ would mean we're still around a 42 win team but with some slight additional losses. Which is why I, and most of the world, seem to be saying around 35.5 wins.

You, on the other hand, think we're suddenly a 25 win team. So not 6.5 more losses, but 17 more losses. You think we will only win 30% of our games next year, after a 51% season, because of the loss of DJ?

Lakers won 35 games last year, and they are now predicted to win 52.5 games with Lebron, with Lebron being "worth" 17.5 additional game wins. So you're literally saying DJ was having the same impact on the Clippers as Lebron James has on teams?

It's nonsense. Pessimistic nonsense.


Mistwell3
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SamMays wrote:
Last year we started the season with a starting front court of Blake, DJ and Gallinari. This year we start with a front court of Gortat, Gallinari and Harris. Harris is not as good as Blake (though closer than one might have imagined) Gortat is not nearly as good as DJ and Gallinari is Gallinari. This is a big net minus on a team that wasn't a playoff team. Last year our backcourt started the season with a rotation of Milos, Lou, Austin and Beverly. This year Milos will likely be gone, so he and Austin will be replaced by SGA, Robinson and Bradley. If the rookies are good (and I like them) this is an upgrade, in my view not as big as the downgrade up front.

First, Harris played BETTER than Blake last year, and significantly better than Blake was playing with the Clippers last year.

Second, Mbah will be taking more minutes this year for sure, sometimes as a starter, and he's a very good defender.

Third, Milos is in fact coming back.

Quote:
Then add in the loss of DJ and Blake, replaced by Gortat and Gallinari at the 4/5. Blake wasn't a great defender, but he was a lot better than Gallinari there. DJ is enormously better than Gortat. Then bring in rebounding. DJ was spectacular as compared to Gortat, as Blake is as compared to Gallinari. So our defense and rebounding in the front court is going to be dramatically worse than what we started with last year. I just don't see how anyone can predict this team to be as good as we were last year going into the season. Injuries, as with all teams, will take their course.

Nonsense. Blake was a net negative relative to his replacement, who was Harris. Gallo was on the team with Blake, remember? I will grant you Gortat is a downgrade on DJ.

But more importantly your claim our defense will be worse overall is a trick because you isolated just half the team for each part of your post. Our overall defense is significantly better. We have a healthy Bradley, Mbah (a defense specialist), a healthy Beverly, Thornwell, and the addition of SGA. And while Gortat is not as good as DJ, it's not a bad defender either, and in fact part of the reason he was arguing with Wall last year is because he can't stand it when players around him are lazy on defense. We also brought in assistant coach Rex Kalamian. Kalamian is a defensive guru who upon his hiring in Toronto brought them from 25th in overall defense in 2014-15 to 11th in the next season, and they then got better from there.

Every single analysis out there shows we have improved defense. You're just plain wrong on this one Sam.

I didn't predict we would be as good as last year. I predicted 35.5 wins. We won 42 games last year. That's a big drop-off. It's your silly 25 win prediction that's the outlier here. And my 35 win prediction is based on roughly the SAME injuries we had last year, which themselves were all career outliers for those people (they all had injury history, but none as bad as last year). If anything, I'd say my 35 win prediction is slightly pessimistic.


SamMays
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There are three basic predictions that have been offered in this forum.

The optimistic prediction is that we could be a playoff team This is an outlier for most. It would mean 44 wins or so, and better than last year.

There is the consensus prediction, which is around 35 wins, which is where you and most others have us.

Then, there is the pessimistic prediction which is 25 wins. This is also an outlier.

I have said, over and over, that we will be somewhere between 35 (which I say is entirely reasonable given reasonable health) and 25, which I think is also entirely reasonable if our health situation is about what it was last year, i.e. Gallinari plays less than 30 games, Beverly misses a large chunk of the season and Bradley continues his downward career arc. This also assumes that the two rookies are not significantly impactful players and need a year or two of development before their contributions become considerable. This is the normal arc for rookies.

There are a lot of things that could render moot any of these three predictions. A return of poor health, obviously, would make it difficult to hit the consensus numbers. Excellent health and the grand emergence of SGA into an immediate impact player (like Mitchell in Utah) could even make the optimistic prediction a possibility. That's why you play the season.

You have simply cherry picked my bottom end argument, ignored the qualifications, and acted as if that was my entire point of view. It isn't.


SamMays
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Oh, and while I like the trade, Harris is not better than Blake Griffin and was not a better player last year than Blake Griffin. That's just silly talk.

Griffin Pts 21.5. Reb 7.5. Ast 5.8

Harris Pts. 18.6 Reb 5.5 Ast 2.4


Mistwell3
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SamMays wrote:
There are three basic predictions that have been offered in this forum.

The optimistic prediction is that we could be a playoff team This is an outlier for most. It would mean 44 wins or so, and better than last year.

There is the consensus prediction, which is around 35 wins, which is where you and most others have us.

Then, there is the pessimistic prediction which is 25 wins. This is also an outlier.

I have said, over and over, that we will be somewhere between 35 (which I say is entirely reasonable given reasonable health) and 25, which I think is also entirely reasonable if our health situation is about what it was last year, i.e. Gallinari plays less than 30 games, Beverly misses a large chunk of the season and Bradley continues his downward career arc. This also assumes that the two rookies are not significantly impactful players and need a year or two of development before their contributions become considerable. This is the normal arc for rookies.

There are a lot of things that could render moot any of these three predictions. A return of poor health, obviously, would make it difficult to hit the consensus numbers. Excellent health and the grand emergence of SGA into an immediate impact player (like Mitchell in Utah) could even make the optimistic prediction a possibility. That's why you play the season.

You have simply cherry picked my bottom end argument, ignored the qualifications, and acted as if that was my entire point of view. It isn't.

Your argument amounts to you essentially claiming DJ replaced with Gortat, and Austin replaced with Mbah, and the addition of our rookies and Mike Scott, with all other injuries being the same (which is your position), is the same as losing Lebron from a team. You're talking about a FORTY PERCENT DROP in wins.

It's too much. WAY too much. Just assuming the same injuries as last year gets you roughly 35 wins this year instead of 42 - because that's the drop off from DJ and Austin being replaced. There is no calculous that would result in such a massive drop-off from the same amount of injuries. I liked DJ too but you are way way way overvaluing the wins he produced.


SamMays
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Mistwell3 wrote:
Your argument amounts to you essentially claiming DJ replaced with Gortat, and Austin replaced with Mbah, and the addition of our rookies and Mike Scott, with all other injuries being the same (which is your position), is the same as losing Lebron from a team. You're talking about a FORTY PERCENT DROP in wins.

It's too much. WAY too much. Just assuming the same injuries as last year gets you roughly 35 wins this year instead of 42 - because that's the drop off from DJ and Austin being replaced. There is no calculous that would result in such a massive drop-off from the same amount of injuries. I liked DJ too but you are way way way overvaluing the wins he produced.

You said that. Not me.


ClipperPostman
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That’s the problem with stupid predictions. We are not the only team that made changes. Way too many variables to just say “if this team was healthy last year and won X amount of games, then this season we should, X amount of games.

Did the lakers have Lebron last season? So those could be losses. Do we beat Houston again? Were there teams we beat where their main players were injured? Did some of the teams we beat last year get better this year?

How many games did we win because of last second shot, last second foul, etc...

That’s why it’s dumb to argue on prediction over another when so many variables on both sides have changed.

We may run 25 games we may win 41 games. This team as built is garbage. Gortat is garbage. Rookies are rookies.

More than likely we win 25-30 games. Hopefully more towards 25.


Dirtydunks
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ClipperPostman wrote:
That’s the problem with stupid predictions. We are not the only team that made changes. Way too many variables to just say “if this team was healthy last year and won X amount of games, then this season we should, X amount of games.

Did the lakers have Lebron last season? So those could be losses. Do we beat Houston again? Were there teams we beat where their main players were injured? Did some of the teams we beat last year get better this year?

How many games did we win because of last second shot, last second foul, etc...

That’s why it’s dumb to argue on prediction over another when so many variables on both sides have changed.

We may run 25 games we may win 41 games. This team as built is garbage. Gortat is garbage. Rookies are rookies.

More than likely we win 25-30 games. Hopefully more towards 25.

A rant about stupid predictions that ends with a stupid prediction. Take your own advice and let’s wait and see how everything comes together.


ClipperPostman
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Dirtydunks wrote:
A rant about stupid predictions that ends with a stupid prediction. Take your own advice and let’s wait and see how everything comes together.

No a rant about arguing with someone else over their stupid prediction. Get it now?


SamMays
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Dirtydunks wrote:
A rant about stupid predictions that ends with a stupid prediction. Take your own advice and let’s wait and see how everything comes together.

if we didn't have stupid predictions, stupid trades, stupid rants, what would we do here?


Dirtydunks
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ClipperPostman wrote:
No a rant about arguing with someone else over their stupid prediction. Get it now?
Oh okay. Stupid predictions including yours are okay then and we just shouldn’t argue about them. I get it now but when you start with “ That’s the problem with stupid predictions” and finish with your own version it almost sounds like you think all predictions that don’t agree with yours are stupid predictions.


ClipperPostman
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Dirtydunks wrote:
Oh okay. Stupid predictions including yours are okay then and we just shouldn’t argue about them. I get it now but when you start with “ That’s the problem with stupid predictions” and finish with your own version it almost sounds like you think all predictions that don’t agree with yours are stupid predictions.

I can see how it got that. My point is All predictions are stupid including mine. So to get angry and argue with someone feverishly because their prediction is different makes no sense.


Dirtydunks
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ClipperPostman wrote:
I can see how it got that. My point is All predictions are stupid including mine. So to get angry and argue with someone feverishly because their prediction is different makes no sense.
Agree. It’s not worth getting all worked up over.


Agent0
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Never any need to get worked up, it's just basketball. Of course we can make random predictions and we can make informed predictions. The hope would be to do the latter, but there's way too much change and uncertainty (rookies) that the prediction range is a lot wider. For example, who thought Donovan Mitchell would be as good as he was last season? That totally changed Utah's season.


toohipcliptoslip
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It's all statistics. Crossing the street is a prediction that you won't get hit. It has nothing to do with stupidity. It's what level of probability do you consider acceptable. Standing pat on a straight flush or drawing to an inside straight are predictions. If you are aware that he odds are 3/52 and are willing to take the risk, it's not a stupid prediction, it's a stupid idea - or not -. It's all a matter of taste. How much information you need to be informed is a matter of taste, it is arbitrary, not definition.

Think of it like going to Vegas. Win or lose, you can still have fun. I do predict that at this point we will win 30 games, with almost no data.Bad taste. I predict that the kid with the long name will be good, with data. I hope the Summer League tastes his shorts.


clipperboy24
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Dirtydunks wrote:
A rant about stupid predictions that ends with a stupid prediction. Take your own advice and let’s wait and see how everything comes together.

That’s pretty funny


Agent0
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So is it going to be the qualifying offer for Trez? At this stage, there isn't really anyone out there that wants to spend money that can offer him more than MLE


Clippersfan86
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Agent0 wrote:
So is it going to be the qualifying offer for Trez? At this stage, there isn't really anyone out there that wants to spend money that can offer him more than MLE

Yep. He will walk next summer too.


Mistwell3
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
Yep. He will walk next summer too.

That depends on the season and what we offer him next year. No reason to think he will walk yet. He didn't walk this year and we clearly were not planning to match anything on the higher end.


SamMays
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
Yep. He will walk next summer too.

Next summer will be a totally different animal. Expect the team to commit to winning and to the players it thinks it can win with by signing them to longer term contracts.


Clippersfan86
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Mistwell3 wrote:
That depends on the season and what we offer him next year. No reason to think he will walk yet. He didn't walk this year and we clearly were not planning to match anything on the higher end.

I think he's gonna be extra motivated and go off next year. Bad teams will offer him 15 mill a year. Clippers will not offer that amount and he will walk, after being burned the previous offseason despite them supposedly wanting to keep him. This is the price you pay for just doing a qualifying offer on a guy who screams "more minutes and I'm going to kill it". The ONLY way this doesn't happen is if Doc plays him the same or less minutes next year (which would likely piss him off into leaving anyway).

What incentive does he have to be here long term when he can go anywhere? Clearly we didn't value his services and the Clippers deserve to lose him at this point if he just takes the qualifying offer.


Agent0
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Mistwell3 wrote:
That depends on the season and what we offer him next year. No reason to think he will walk yet. He didn't walk this year and we clearly were not planning to match anything on the higher end.
Well he can't walk this year since he's a RFA. The only way he walks is if the Clippers rescinded the QO or if he had gotten a large contract that the Clippers didn't want to match.


jarca
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This board is always off on player’s value


Mistwell3
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Agent0 wrote:
Well he can't walk this year since he's a RFA. The only way he walks is if the Clippers rescinded the QO or if he had gotten a large contract that the Clippers didn't want to match.

Of course he could have walked in these circumstances if he's really anything even vaguely close to a $15M/yr player. He easily would have been able to find another team to make an offer on him that the Clippers would have been unwilling to match. But that's the thing, he's not a $15M/yr player, and interest in him was nearly zero from other teams.

Clippers made it very clear they would not harm their cap space next year, which meant they would not match any longer term offer on him. And he still got NO OFFERS.

Hence, we have no idea what will happen next year. All we have to go on is now. And right now, there is no interest in Montrezl Harrell from any team other than the Clippers.


Icecoldclipper
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any updates?


Clemenza
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The league is flush with guards and power forwards. Good centers and wings are the holy grail. If Trez was 6' 10" or taller his phone would be ringing off the hook. I'm sure teams want him now but they probably don't have the cap space and/or their bigs rotation is already set.


Clippersfan86
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jarca wrote:
This board is always off on player’s value

If he's worth probably 8-9 mill a year now (MLE, most of us seem to agree on this figure), why is it farfetched to think his value could increase by next summer? I'm factoring him taking another leap and him getting some dumb offers from bad teams. Half the league has or can create significant cap next summer. It worked in our favor this summer that almost nobody had cap, but next summer it will work against us.


Clippersfan86
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Great. Now he's tweeting that he gives up and then how he's in a dark place right now. I swear on everything sometimes I get so damn pissed off at our front office. Lawrence/Winger/West overall have been a huge upgrade but this is a mistake. If you don't believe me now, wait until next year.


pageC4
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
Great. Now he's tweeting that he gives up and then how he's in a dark place right now. I swear on everything sometimes I get so damn pissed off at our front office. Lawrence/Winger/West overall have been a huge upgrade but this is a mistake. If you don't believe me now, wait until next year.
another thing may factor into that. Recently, an Instagram model leaked that he tried to buy her off for sexual favors. She took his paid flight to L.A., went to his house, even filmed it. I'm sure that would be embarrassing and add to a rather dismal situation with his first team trading him, then the clippers not showing interest. Harrell actually should be resigned. 8 million per year is reasonable. Nice Avatar by the way. It's nice to start all over with new players...hopefully neither of them end up having the bad traits that their lob city predecessors.


powersurge95
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Has another notice Montrezl Herrell twitter account lately? It seems like he's going through some tough times. He tweeted that he's in a dark place right now. a couple of weeks ago he tweeted something weird about saying sorry to his kids and that they're the only ones that love and care him in the world. Strange.


LA_Clipper818
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Wishing the best for Montrezl. Probably personal reasons, but I’m sure playing so well and not receiving offers must suck. I wonder if teams know Clippers are going to try match or if there’s something behind the scenes we don’t know. Really hope we bring him back though!


Clippersfan86
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pageC4 wrote:
another thing may factor into that. Recently, an Instagram model leaked that he tried to buy her off for sexual favors. She took his paid flight to L.A., went to his house, even filmed it. I'm sure that would be embarrassing and add to a rather dismal situation with his first team trading him, then the clippers not showing interest. Harrell actually should be resigned. 8 million per year is reasonable. Nice Avatar by the way. It's nice to start all over with new players...hopefully neither of them end up having the bad traits that their lob city predecessors.

Team had no issue paying Wes 7, Austin 13 nearly, Lou 8 (Lou was a good signing)... yet Harrell who's far better than these guys and actually earned it can't get even 8-10 a year? These other guys outside of Austin are 30+ and Harrell is just 24 with upside, not yet in his prime. It makes no damn sense to me. As for the model situation, it's embarrassing, but would hope that wouldn't affect the desire to keep a good young player. Thanks man, I'm more excited than I maybe ever have been besides rookie Blake year. I love a fresh start and truly disliked the Blake/CP3 teams the last 2 or 3 years.


Clippersfan86
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LA_Clipper818 wrote:
Wishing the best for Montrezl. Probably personal reasons, but I’m sure playing so well and not receiving offers must suck. I wonder if teams know Clippers are going to try match or if there’s something behind the scenes we don’t know. Really hope we bring him back though!

I mean he was our best player on the roster last year. The metrics bore that out and even with eye test, nobody had his impact when he was in games. So the fact that arguably our best player on the team, 24 years old... who played harder than ANYBODY on the team. That embodies the culture the Clippers are going for. Yet he can't even get a damn offer besides QO? INSANE. OUTRAGE. I'm telling you if he feels burned, he's walking next summer in free agency and we lost a young guy with upside for no damn good reason. Hell, if anything he should be our starting PF for the next few years! I just can't fathom why the Clippers are doing things like signing Avery Bradley when Harrell isn't getting a deal.


Clippersfan86
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The only thing that will make this "kosher" for me is if we find out Harrell was refusing any offer less than 15+ million a year, or asking for max money etc. Which I really doubt happened.


jarca
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
Team had no issue paying Wes 7, Austin 13 nearly, Lou 8 (Lou was a good signing)... yet Harrell who's far better than these guys and actually earned it can't get even 8-10 a year? These other guys outside of Austin are 30+ and Harrell is just 24 with upside, not yet in his prime. It makes no damn sense to me. As for the model situation, it's embarrassing, but would hope that wouldn't affect the desire to keep a good young player. Thanks man, I'm more excited than I maybe ever have been besides rookie Blake year. I love a fresh start and truly disliked the Blake/CP3 teams the last 2 or 3 years.

Because he’s your favorite player that’s why it doesn’t make sense to you. Maybe it’s clouding your judgment. Let’s see him average 23+ minutes then we can talk on what’s fair. As of now he’s still a project with not that much upside. He’ll never be an all star or be on all NBA teams. Would up and coming team really risk their future flexibility for a guy like Harrell whose real talent is that he likes to cherry pick for easy bucket by not trying to grab boards?


jarca
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Remember guys this is the same board that said we should lock up Ty Wallace. LMAO... where s all the team clamoring for Ty Wallace hahahahaha. Is he even signed yet.

This thread reminds me so much as the Ty Wlllace thread.


SamMays
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votes: 94

jarca wrote:
Because he’s your favorite player that’s why it doesn’t make sense to you. Maybe it’s clouding your judgment. Let’s see him average 23+ minutes then we can talk on what’s fair. As of now he’s still a project with not that much upside. He’ll never be an all star or be on all NBA teams. Would up and coming team really risk their future flexibility for a guy like Harrell whose real talent is that he likes to cherry pick for easy bucket by not trying to grab boards?

Harrell is a nice player, but you don't build around second unit guys and he'll never be more than that. He's a very nice backup PF/C, but those are the guys you commit to AFTER you've figured out who your stars are and where exactly you are going.

For example, we will be in the free agent market next summer. If we pick up a PF as our marquee player, then having 8 million committed to Harrell becomes a really big mistake. Add to that, we can all see what's happening in the free agent market. Teams that wait around can pick up some real bargains. You can get solid backup players like Mike Scott at any point who, by the way, signed for 1.8 million.

And some want to give Harrell 5 times that much? That's ridiculous.


jarca
CNS MVP X3
Posts: 11865

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votes: 50

SamMays wrote:
Harrell is a nice player, but you don't build around second unit guys and he'll never be more than that. He's a very nice backup PF/C, but those are the guys you commit to AFTER you've figured out who your stars are and where exactly you are going.

For example, we will be in the free agent market next summer. If we pick up a PF as our marquee player, then having 8 million committed to Harrell becomes a really big mistake. Add to that, we can all see what's happening in the free agent market. Teams that wait around can pick up some real bargains. You can get solid backup players like Mike Scott at any point who, by the way, signed for 1.8 million.

And some want to give Harrell 5 times that much? That's ridiculous.

Agree with what you said. I am not a Harrell hater but people just exaggerate his value. He’s a good role player and he should not be overpaid.


clippyclip
Clipper Starter
Posts: 688
votes: 12

What is this all about??


Clemenza
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1335
votes: 17

jarca wrote:
Remember guys this is the same board that said we should lock up Ty Wallace. LMAO... where s all the team clamoring for Ty Wallace hahahahaha. Is he even signed yet.

This thread reminds me so much as the Ty Wlllace thread.

Shai and Jerome happened


Clippersfan86
CNS MVP Champion
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Age: 32
Posts: 17396
votes: 98

jarca wrote:
Because he’s your favorite player that’s why it doesn’t make sense to you. Maybe it’s clouding your judgment. Let’s see him average 23+ minutes then we can talk on what’s fair. As of now he’s still a project with not that much upside. He’ll never be an all star or be on all NBA teams. Would up and coming team really risk their future flexibility for a guy like Harrell whose real talent is that he likes to cherry pick for easy bucket by not trying to grab boards?

I don't see an argument from you here. Just accusations, assumptions and random predictions. Harrell was my favorite player on the team last year, now it's SGA. My loyalty is to the team, I'm not a player stan. The numbers show a REALLY good player not playing enough minutes. The argument of him being unable to handle more minutes is foolish. Doc played the wrong guys last year and played Harrell way too little, how is that a knock on him? We have a large sample of more production as his minutes and usage rose, not less. Harrell shouldn't be signed to big money but anything less than 10 a year isn't affecting us long term or next year. He's a good young player and all we can muster is QO?


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 7548
votes: 53

We simply have no clue how good he can be, it's a guess and we just don't have the data. He has never been in a stiuation to show off his skills.

The guys metrics are good as well as I understand metrics. Few and an stop his offense in the paint.He was a bench player but did OK against starters. His "High energy" level is irrelevant as long as he doesn't gas. Why do people criticize him for having high energy? That's usually a plus. It's called playing hard with passion. He's more athletic than Elton Brand. He doesn't take plays off. How long did it take DJ to develop? Has he had anybody working with him to better his skills?

He has no shot and his rebounding is suspect as his defense. He is undersized as a center and we don't know if he has the skills to be a PF. We don't know his work ethic.

Can he be a franchise player? Yes. Few can dispute the fact that it is quite possible. He has all the tools. Can he be Faried redux? We have no clue.Yes but anybody can. Blake Griffin for example. I think either assessment has merit and we won't unfortunately know until next year. It's a crap shoot. I'll bet $10 mill because I think that he can fix the holes in his game..


Clippersfan86
CNS MVP Champion
 Avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 17396
votes: 98

SamMays wrote:
Harrell is a nice player, but you don't build around second unit guys and he'll never be more than that. He's a very nice backup PF/C, but those are the guys you commit to AFTER you've figured out who your stars are and where exactly you are going.

For example, we will be in the free agent market next summer. If we pick up a PF as our marquee player, then having 8 million committed to Harrell becomes a really big mistake. Add to that, we can all see what's happening in the free agent market. Teams that wait around can pick up some real bargains. You can get solid backup players like Mike Scott at any point who, by the way, signed for 1.8 million.

And some want to give Harrell 5 times that much? That's ridiculous.

We often agree and I'm disappointed to see a post like this coming from you. It's pretty much assumptions and no sound argument for letting him go (similar to Jarca here). The data goes against everything both of you are saying here. Nothing suggests he's capped as a backup or role player. When you look at statistical trends last year he looks like a guy who played about 10 mpg less than he should. His per minute raw figures and metrics weren't anything like a role player. In fact, they were SUPERSTAR level. So to say he's peaked as a backup is unfounded and weird. You would think we could all agree that he can at least potentially be a starter for a few years.

Committing 8 million isn't an issue when you have 70 mill in cap, more possibly if Gallinari is gone. That's cheap for a guy who put up his numbers with that impact. Last thing we need this team doing is thinking like OKC etc and losing key players constantly to avoid luxury taxes etc.

Also you mention committing to good role players after stars... yet what if you have no stars? What if next summer we strike out (like most teams do on superstars in free agency)?? You always just let young talent walk until you have stars? That seems like a horrible way to build. I don't think you or Jarca realize how many teams have money next year. It will go very differently next summer. The team will regret losing him, I'm almost certain of that.

The good news is we will know who's prediction is accurate sooner than later and I'll have this thread bookmarked.

Ps... I was on the Bledsoe and DJ bandwagon way before most people, so I have a pretty good track record about this kind of stuff. Vinny was underplaying both guys and I constantly complained about it just like I am with Harrell.


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