Even CP Couldn't Fix This Mess

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toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
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votes: 52

This is not a CP rant but it's good that we didn't sign him. We would have had him and a Poor Man's Big Two. Our Abbot and Costello were going nowhere expensively and CP would lose a step in 2 years. Watching the PO's, every team has an "Oh Sh*t!" player. How many does Boston have or HOU? Boston didn't have Hayward or Irving and are tough. Except for CP, the only one we've had is Trezz. We have three good ROOKIES who could be flashes in the pan. We have DJ who is far from the "Defensive Anchor/Rim Protector" and should go. Lou while he is good he's unidimensional and getting old as is Beverly who is injury prone. Then there is Gallo. Our PG should is getting old and is a defensive sieve. Tobias and AR are good journeyman players. While I admire their grit, we're sniffing gasoline if we think that they're going anywhere. Do we have a Greek Freak in the wings? We have Trezz in the wings maybe.

Time to bite the bullet and blow it up. Take a cleansing breath draft well and be back in 2 years. The only ones I'd keep are Lou and Trezz. Everybody else is expendable.


Snafu
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1004
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 6

Even free agents looking like bums(PG) these days. Maybe a lot of teams will try to flip their high priced chokers into gold. I hope the Clippers just let Jerry use the 2 picks instead of wasting them on fool's gold.


SamMays
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votes: 90

I will say Harris is much more than a journeyman player. He'd be an excellent second or third scorer, depending on the level of player he's paired with. You can win with him at SF for the next six years.


jarca
CNS MVP X3
Posts: 11524

rp.gif
votes: 48

Just give me a starting line up that can play 70 games a season and I'll be satisfied


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 7391
votes: 52

SamMays wrote:
I will say Harris is much more than a journeyman player. He'd be an excellent second or third scorer, depending on the level of player he's paired with. You can win with him at SF for the next six years.

He had a career year as did many players. You're probably right but let's wait and see.


A7XDreamTheaterClipps
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1168
votes: 13

I'm pretty high on Tobias as well. He'll never be a star IMO, but he can definitely be a great compliment to a great team. I can see him getting voted in as an all-star if he has 2 stars playing with him and the team is on pace to 60 wins. If we can keep him for cheap, that would be ideal.


Clemenza
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1144
votes: 16

No stars but we have a good nucleus moving forward if you ask me. Tobais is more than a journyman and might make a nice leap next season if he works on his game like I know he will be. Trez, Sindarious, Ty Wallace, Lou.. and I think one of the kids we draft if not both are going to change the team around. Lets show a little patience. If we can get rid of Doc I think we got something brewing. The OP mentioned Giannis- he was a ghost in that game 7 against the Celtics and he's always reluctant to shoot an outside shot. Paul George's name isnt' that hot right now. Cousins tore his achilles. Kawhi is a mystery. A Lot of the big names who might be available this offseason don't have much of a buzz anymore.

Let Jerry West cook a bit before the doomsday scenario. Look at Utah.. they were supposed to be a **** franchise after Heyward left. Then they struck gold with Donovan Mitchell. Plus you can see parity is starting to slowly creep into the league. Sit tight and lets give this another season. I like the direction we're headed


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
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votes: 52

We need an all star center and PG and an all star PF. (Trezz). We are rock solid as long as the Rooks are OK. This team is the grittiest in the NBA now. BUT we have nobody to take us to the next level. Put us with any number of mega stars an we're damned good. Get rid of DJ and Doc in the same flush. The prototypical journeyman was Cuttino Mobley. Tobias is better. Trezz is long and Tobias is long but that's it. Long is the future. We have no way to get over the hump unless first we get lucky in the draft, trade well and are able to develop players which we haven't done. It may take a couple of years of not making the PO's. I hope Austin starts on a lesser team (somewhere else). He's earned it.


Clemenza
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1144
votes: 16

toohipcliptoslip wrote:
We need an all star center and PG and an all star PF. (Trezz). We are rock solid as long as the Rooks are OK. This team is the grittiest in the NBA now. BUT we have nobody to take us to the next level. Put us with any number of mega stars an we're damned good. Get rid of DJ and Doc in the same flush. The prototypical journeyman was Cuttino Mobley. Tobias is better. Trezz is long and Tobias is long but that's it. Long is the future. We have no way to get over the hump unless first we get lucky in the draft, trade well and are able to develop players which we haven't done. It may take a couple of years of not making the PO's. I hope Austin starts on a lesser team (somewhere else). He's earned it.

But this is the holy grail of hoops right now- an all star center. Everybody wants or is looking for an all star center and top notch wings. There's power forwards and guards galore. This will be our first offseason in about 7 years that we didn't have a star on the team.. almost like 6 months without having a star on the team. Be patient. This argument will be more valid at the end of next season if we haven't acquired or developed someone who looks the part of a star or future star


clipperharry
Clipper Starter
Posts: 349
votes: 1

starts at top by frank &Doc


clipfan63
CNS MVP X1
Posts: 2977
votes: 10

jarca wrote:
Just give me a starting line up that can play 70 games a season and I'll be satisfied
Good point, our ridiculous injuries this last season just decimated any chance of accurately assessing the team overall. We know some of the shortcomings but we don't have a clear picture for the overall assessment.


clipfan63
CNS MVP X1
Posts: 2977
votes: 10

toohipcliptoslip wrote:
This is not a CP rant but it's good that we didn't sign him. We would have had him and a Poor Man's Big Two. Our Abbot and Costello were going nowhere expensively and CP would lose a step in 2 years. Watching the PO's, every team has an "Oh Sh*t!" player. How many does Boston have or HOU? Boston didn't have Hayward or Irving and are tough. Except for CP, the only one we've had is Trezz. We have three good ROOKIES who could be flashes in the pan. We have DJ who is far from the "Defensive Anchor/Rim Protector" and should go. Lou while he is good he's unidimensional and getting old as is Beverly who is injury prone. Then there is Gallo. Our PG should is getting old and is a defensive sieve. Tobias and AR are good journeyman players. While I admire their grit, we're sniffing gasoline if we think that they're going anywhere. Do we have a Greek Freak in the wings? We have Trezz in the wings maybe.

Time to bite the bullet and blow it up. Take a cleansing breath draft well and be back in 2 years. The only ones I'd keep are Lou and Trezz. Everybody else is expendable.

CP had already lost a step, he was noticeably slower his last 2 seasons with us compared to previously. Think we have a few more keepers besides just Lou and Trezz.


Clemenza
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1144
votes: 16

I suggest you guys check out a Raptor message board right about now. Its mirroring our own past frustrations, chokes, and playoff failures over the past few years


Griffinforpresident
Clipper Starter
Posts: 489
votes: 6

Clemenza wrote:
I suggest you guys check out a Raptor message board right about now. Its mirroring our own past frustrations, chokes, and playoff failures over the past few years

Yeah, I’m sure they’re not in a good place right now. They’re time of breaking it up could be coming soon.


Mistwell3
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 169
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 4

CP3 just choked in their last game. I think we got out of what will be a monster contract in the nick of time.


Agent0
CNS MVP X3
Posts: 11308
votes: 95

Mistwell3 wrote:
CP3 just choked in their last game. I think we got out of what will be a monster contract in the nick of time.
The playoffs have shown why Harden and Paul needed each other, and in general why stars need another solid and reliable other star. When Paul is off, Harden has been on, when Harden is off, Paul has been on, basically they have filled the gaps for each other. Of course they will hit the Warriors who have two stars that are each better and then an additional two All-Stars, but that's a problem that all of the league is facing.


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 7391
votes: 52

Does anybody have an idea what CP wanted and what would have kept him?


Griffinforpresident
Clipper Starter
Posts: 489
votes: 6

toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Does anybody have an idea what CP wanted and what would have kept him?

My guess was the max contract and probably a change of personnel (Rivers family, Blake). He wins a ring with Houston, good for him and his legacy. The only downfall is that he may have lost $50 million that’s only if Houston ponies up the max for him.

He wasn’t taking this team anywhere other than the second round at best.


Agent0
CNS MVP X3
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votes: 95
-Chance to win a championship, didn't think Clippers with him were better then GS unless some drastic roster change happened -Better and more reliable co-star than Griffin, one who could consistently match or exceed his impact. Paul has a really high baseline impact, but he's not explosive in terms of the 40, 50 point type games, so his upper limit is limited. Griffin's baseline impact is lower, but his upper limit was not even really better than Paul's. While that was a small factor in the Clippers lack of success, if you're thinking of beating GS and championship, that comes into play. Generally you want one of you stars to have that really high upper limit and Griffin at 6'10, super athlete, he's the one that should have had that, not the 6'0 guy, and he didn't. Harden >> Griffin and has that high upper limit. His baseline impact is also better than Griffin and consistently at the a similar level to Paul with the higher upper limit that gives him a boost. Then there's the health part, Harden rarely misses games, Blake was out the last two playoffs with injury -Better friendship with co-star possibly. When Matt Barnes was recently asked about favourite teammates of all time he said Paul first, DJ second and Redick third. There's a glaring omission there and it fits in with the talk about tension between Pau and Griffin because Griffin felt Paul sort of usurped his position as franchise leader and was seen as better than him and that Griffin was also difficult to hash things out with because you didn't know how he would react -Doc out as GM, as Paul no longer trusted him to make the right roster decisions. This one happened right after he left and likely partly due to him leaving,....


Agent0
CNS MVP X3
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votes: 95

Griffinforpresident wrote:
My guess was the max contract and probably a change of personnel (Rivers family, Blake). He wins a ring with Houston, good for him and his legacy. The only downfall is that he may have lost $50 million that’s only if Houston ponies up the max for him.

He wasn’t taking this team anywhere other than the second round at best.

If he wanted the max he should have stayed since we were going to give it, but he wanted that and the winning, but with how Paul knows the cap and the league and salaries, I don't doubt that he knows he had to give up some money. Guy is super rich anyways though. He might still want it, but I can't see him getting the full max now. If he wants to win he will likely have to give up some money, maybe they'll give him a two year max though. It will be interesting to see if the President of the players association takes a paycut to win.


david
Site Admin
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votes: 51

Wow CP3 with a huge game 6- how come he didn't come through like that for the Clippers in multiple game 6's like that? Wink


CLIPSET
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1156
votes: 6

david wrote:
Wow CP3 with a huge game 6- how come he didn't come through like that for the Clippers in multiple game 6's like that? Wink

Was thinking the same thing. Too bad the Dubs are going to run out in 5


Agent0
CNS MVP X3
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votes: 95

david wrote:
Wow CP3 with a huge game 6- how come he didn't come through like that for the Clippers in multiple game 6's like that? Wink
That's because it was game 5, he can't play well in game 6, only in game 5, but seriously, that was one heck of a game. Wish we had defenders like the Rockets have on their team, would have been huge for the Clippers in the past. Harden was basically non-existent and Rockets won, actually last game too Paul carried them. Defense plugs a lot of holes for you as a team, Clippers would play this same game but give up like 115 points, lol.

Hopefully the Rockets can take down the Warriors, them and their excessive super-team need to be beaten.


Clemenza
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1144
votes: 16

Congrats to him but its a damn shame that we never got one playoff game out of him like the one he had tonight. Can't believe this ****.


david
Site Admin
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votes: 51

Agent0 wrote:
That's because it was game 5, he can't play well in game 6, only in game 5, but seriously, that was one heck of a game. Wish we had defenders like the Rockets have on their team, would have been huge for the Clippers in the past. Harden was basically non-existent and Rockets won, actually last game too Paul carried them. Defense plugs a lot of holes for you as a team, Clippers would play this same game but give up like 115 points, lol.

Hopefully the Rockets can take down the Warriors, them and their excessive super-team need to be beaten.

Haha yeah that's right- Jazz only got 1 game. I guess CP learned from his costly blunders with the Clippers in the playoffs. I doubt that the Rockets will be able to beat the Warriors in a 7 game series now that Curry is back, but at least for CP, he got further than he did with the Clippers, so he certainly made the right decision to bail.


Agent0
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Clemenza wrote:
Congrats to him but its a damn shame that we never got one playoff game out of him like the one he had tonight. Can't believe this ****.
Honestly I think a difference for him on the Rockets than with the Clippers is that here he would have to pace himself. With the Rockets, half the possessions he's on with Harden he's basically just chilling and resting on offense. I would say that his 34 point game vs SA in game 4 and his 34 point game vs Utah in game 3 last season were every bit as good as this though. It just doesn't feel that way because those games didn't lead us to the WCF. Even his 32 point game 1 vs SA and of course his game 7 were all great games as well as his 8 3PM game 1 vs OKC.


clippers88
Clipper D-League Pickup
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votes: 2

And CP drops 41/10 with 0 turnovers (carrying Harden) to go to the WCF. Incredible and a damn shame he wasn't able to do it as a Clipper.


sz123456
CNS MVP X1
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votes: 24

Well, I agree with the original post that CP couldn't fix this mess. But he is incredibly clutch. People point to specific possessions in specific games, the fact is every star needs help. We put too much on the guy's shoulders. Hope Rockets win it all.


Agent0
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Posts: 11308
votes: 95

sz123456 wrote:
Well, I agree with the original post that CP couldn't fix this mess. But he is incredibly clutch. People point to specific possessions in specific games, the fact is every star needs help. We put too much on the guy's shoulders. Hope Rockets win it all.
Harden is EXTREMELY happy they got CP3 and had some help with how he played the last two games


clipfan63
CNS MVP X1
Posts: 2977
votes: 10

CLIPSET wrote:
Was thinking the same thing. Too bad the Dubs are going to run out in 5
Yeah, pretty good series for him and the Rockets, but I still don't think they have much of a shot at taking down the super team of the Warriors. Hopefully they can stretch it to 6 or 7 and at least make it entertaining. Would be nice if Boston could knock off Cleveland too, tired of seeing Warriors- Cavs every year.


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 7391
votes: 52

sz123456 wrote:
Well, I agree with the original post that CP couldn't fix this mess. But he is incredibly clutch. People point to specific possessions in specific games, the fact is every star needs help. We put too much on the guy's shoulders. Hope Rockets win it all.

Him being clutch is a matter of debate. Given Austin or CP with the game winning shot, it's a tossup. Good on you CP.

This team from the outset turned out to be fools gold. The Golden Boy was always injured and didn't play real hard and DJ while a pretty good defender, he wasn't great. The Bench Mob was great but we didn't have much else except that year. BG was supposed to be better than Malone. He hasn't even been an allstar. Most of us, I hope, understand why he got the s*it beat out of him. DJ went nowhere. Our GM sucked canal water. DJ ain't Capella, Jamal ain't EJ.

Was talking about the greatest team ever and of course the old Celtics or GSW depeding on rules and a diet training fudge factor. Oscar said something interesting. He said that Steph would never shoot the long ball because they would "guard him at mid court". I finally realized that he meant maybe with Harvey Mason or Oakley. What would they have done to Durant? Do you think hand checking would change things?


clipfan63
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Capella's nothing special, his advanced stats are almost exactly the same as DJ's. Guys like Embiid and KAT have more upside than Capella. Capella's like DJ, Good, but you'd be much better off with an Embiid or KAT. James Harden and to a lesser extent CP3 carry that team, Capella's just a solid supporting player like DJ, nothing more.


Agent0
CNS MVP X3
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clipfan63 wrote:
Capella's nothing special, his advanced stats are almost exactly the same as DJ's. Guys like Embiid and KAT have more upside than Capella. Capella's like DJ, Good, but you'd be much better off with an Embiid or KAT. James Harden and to a lesser extent CP3 carry that team, Capella's just a solid supporting player like DJ, nothing more.
I mentioned this earlier in the year but Capela is better than DJ. He has better touch and ball skills which allows him to finish more plays than DJ can in more ways and makes him a better scorer. Defensively his greater lateral mobility and his quick jumping make him much more suited for switching out to perimeter players and keeping up with them which in turn makes him better suited to the modern game and the Rockets defense.

He outplayed both KAT and Gobert and he should be commended for that. I don't know if I'd always prefer KAT depending on what kind of team I have. For a win this season situation, if I already have scorers I would prefer to get the defensive presence of Capela who can still score just as well inside than to have KAT.


LAC_12
CNS MVP X1
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votes: 30

Hmmmmmm. Interesting. Carry on. Glad everyone got to where I was months ago (maybe longer)...


LAC_12
CNS MVP X1
Posts: 3915
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votes: 30

To connect this thread to Clipper related discussion (indirectly) a trip down memory lane with CP3

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=23445054


LAC_12
CNS MVP X1
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Location: NY/CA
votes: 30

This is not about CP3, this is not about the Clippers... This is about the fact that the Warriors are too good. They are unbeatable. If we think that even a healthy, fun-loving, great chemistry having Clippers were able to beat the post KD Warriors is laughable.

CP3+BG+DJ couldn't have done it

Harden+CP3+Capella won't be able to do it

LeBron & friends won't be able to do it

This is about adding the leagues second best player to the leagues best team in history. They are unbeatable unless they are injured or suspended or... not present. That is not an NBA team, that is an all-star team.

Even if BG wasn't totally underwhelming (fundamentals, efficacy, skills health and chemistry and all)… he wasn't THE guy. Short of another insane super team, GSW aren't going to be stopped. The goal was keeping CP3 in a uniform and forming that super team.

Now the plan is to just... wait it out. Interesting to see what LeBron does in response to what will surely be another 5 game bow out to GSW (maybe 6... more chances its a sweep than a 7 game series, that's all I'm saying.)


LAC_12
CNS MVP X1
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Location: NY/CA
votes: 30

Also another clip with tidbits of memory lane (although roughly the same), but this time narrated by Rachel Nichols <3

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=23444838


Agent0
CNS MVP X3
Posts: 11308
votes: 95

Best record in history, they were not the best team in history, but yes, adding Durant to the team made things very difficult for everyone else.


Clemenza
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1144
votes: 16

Agent0 wrote:
Honestly I think a difference for him on the Rockets than with the Clippers is that here he would have to pace himself. With the Rockets, half the possessions he's on with Harden he's basically just chilling and resting on offense. I would say that his 34 point game vs SA in game 4 and his 34 point game vs Utah in game 3 last season were every bit as good as this though. It just doesn't feel that way because those games didn't lead us to the WCF. Even his 32 point game 1 vs SA and of course his game 7 were all great games as well as his 8 3PM game 1 vs OKC.

True but this was a Chris Paul going nuclear, unconscious, blacking out, "I'm driving the bus!", putting the team on his back and taking them home. I dreamed of him having a moment like that on the Clipps.. It never happened. He was usually out to curate a nice stat line but last night he finally said f*ck it and seized the moment. Props to him but I feel robbed. We would've won game 6 against Houston if he did one-forth of what he did last night.


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
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votes: 52

Why don't we give GSW the ring now and play for second place? 9th seed replaces them.


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 7391
votes: 52

Agent0 wrote:
Best record in history, they were not the best team in history, but yes, adding Durant to the team made things very difficult for everyone else.

I DO NOT want to start an argument, just want your opinion. I"ll shut up. You said GSW was not the best team. Jordan's generation was 1 to 2 inches taller than Russel's and the present generation is huge. The rules have changed like hand checking and what constitutes a foul. It's a kinder gentler league. (This is why GOAT is kind of silly) Bob Petit 6 '11", Russell 6'11"( and still almost made the Olympics.) Oscar 6'8" Wilt 7'4". Add diet and training and give the old guys 5 - 10 lb muscle. Who Wins?


Agent0
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votes: 95

toohipcliptoslip wrote:
I DO NOT want to start an argument, just want your opinion. I"ll shut up. You said GSW was not the best team. Jordan's generation was 1 to 2 inches taller than Russel's and the present generation is huge. The rules have changed like hand checking and what constitutes a foul. It's a kinder gentler league. (This is why GOAT is kind of silly) Bob Petit 6 '11", Russell 6'11"( and still almost made the Olympics.) Oscar 6'8" Wilt 7'4". Add diet and training and give the old guys 5 - 10 lb muscle. Who Wins?
Well it's not really that, I just think that we clearly see that the best record does not always mean better team. A great record says you are very good, yes, but 16-17 GS was better than 15-16 GS despite winning fewer games, hence one team getting down 3-1 in a series and losing the finals while the other lost one game the whole playoffs.


Agent0
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Posts: 11308
votes: 95

Clemenza wrote:
True but this was a Chris Paul going nuclear, unconscious, blacking out, "I'm driving the bus!", putting the team on his back and taking them home. I dreamed of him having a moment like that on the Clipps.. It never happened. He was usually out to curate a nice stat line but last night he finally said f*ck it and seized the moment. Props to him but I feel robbed. We would've won game 6 against Houston if he did one-forth of what he did last night.
For sure, wish he was able to make some more in that 4th, and they played with more of an attack attack mentality. Houston obviously did some good stuff too. Of course if we still gave up 40 points in one quarter (Houston held Utah to 24) it would have been tough to win because even a 40 point Paul game, 9 more than his 31 on its own couldn't cover the difference in a 12 pts loss. Let's say we're simplistic and just add another 4/7 FG and 10 points to him in the 4th which obviously is a lot, that's still a 2 point loss if Clippers don't get stops. Still, maybe if he was hitting a couple more shots it would have prevented some of the Rockets runs and we give up even 35 points instead and he covers the difference individually, you know? Who knows though, but JOSH Smith and Corey Brewer having like the best 3 game shooting stretch of their careers was painful.

Like they say even though it is really simplistic, it's a make and miss league and he was definitely making and came out ready to make the last game.

Seeing the Rockets, the stagger of Paul and Harden, getting possessions off when Harden does his iso stuff, and even getting to have weak matchups on defense and rest more and then their better defense that what the Clippers ever had except maybe 15-16. All that stuff might be combining to make life easier for Paul, he's a bit more fresh, not to mention the didn't play a tough 7 games in the first round like the Clippers always did.

We'll see how it goes against GS though. Losing to them doesn't mean Houston is bad or failed since GS are kind of an unfair team until proven otherwise, but GS can counter all, most of those extra benefits. They can stagger, they have no one to hide and rest on defense against on the perimeter and they can carve out a lot of defenses. They can even make Capela have to sit and he's huge for Houston.


LAC_12
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Agent0 wrote:
Best record in history, they were not the best team in history, but yes, adding Durant to the team made things very difficult for everyone else.

The only reason they were not the best team in history is because KD joined them the year after... and now this team is the best team in history.

If not but staying objective, the 73 win team is objectively the best team in NBA history in the regular season... had Bogut remained healthy (or Green not suspended) they would've capped the most successful regular season with a ring... AND STILL would not have been the best team in history because KD would end up joining them.

I do not know if one can claim the "best team in history" argument... you can't make an argument that is temporal in nature.

All I know is that I was fighting the GSW vs MJ's Bulls arguments for a while... and now I am at a loss for any defense for the dynasty Bulls.

GSW with KD iteration is the greatest team ever assembled.


Clemenza
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1144
votes: 16

Agent0 wrote:
For sure, wish he was able to make some more in that 4th, and they played with more of an attack attack mentality. Houston obviously did some good stuff too. Of course if we still gave up 40 points in one quarter (Houston held Utah to 24) it would have been tough to win because even a 40 point Paul game, 9 more than his 31 on its own couldn't cover the difference in a 12 pts loss. Let's say we're simplistic and just add another 4/7 FG and 10 points to him in the 4th which obviously is a lot, that's still a 2 point loss if Clippers don't get stops. Still, maybe if he was hitting a couple more shots it would have prevented some of the Rockets runs and we give up even 35 points instead and he covers the difference individually, you know? Who knows though, but JOSH Smith and Corey Brewer having like the best 3 game shooting stretch of their careers was painful.

We would've gone down a different timeline if CP3 and the team scored more points in that 4th. Maybe Josh Smith and Corey Brewer come back down to earth once we start scoring and more than likely a few trips to the free throw line thus slowing the game back down. Our defense turns it up a notch, plus less shots for Josh and Brewer one Harden is inserted back into the game.


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 7391
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LAC_12 wrote:
The only reason they were not the best team in history is because KD joined them the year after... and now this team is the best team in history.

If not but staying objective, the 73 win team is objectively the best team in NBA history in the regular season... had Bogut remained healthy (or Green not suspended) they would've capped the most successful regular season with a ring... AND STILL would not have been the best team in history because KD would end up joining them.

I do not know if one can claim the "best team in history" argument... you can't make an argument that is temporal in nature.

All I know is that I was fighting the GSW vs MJ's Bulls arguments for a while... and now I am at a loss for any defense for the dynasty Bulls.

GSW with KD iteration is the greatest team ever assembled.

It is temporal but it also depends on rules. UNDER THE PRESENT RULES GSW is the best --BUT-- shrink GSW by 3" and 10lb and the Bulls by 2" and 5 lb then allow hand checking and let the game be more physical and get rid of the f*cking 3 point shot, it's the old Celtics. I would have loved to watch Russell take Draymond's nose and make him wipe his own a** with it.

True. Wilt and MJ had a very heated conversation about GOAT. finally Wilt said in frustration "Michael, they altered the rules so you could win, they altered the rules so i could lose." MJ shut up. MJ and Russell were having a talk about the greatest team. Finally in frustration Bill said that Paxon would have never made the game winning shot because he would have been in the bleachers. He would have been a spectator because he couldn't have made the NBA MJ shut up

. 200lb Tyson vs 200 lb Marciano, Tyson and a young Frazier.


LAC_12
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Posts: 3915
Location: NY/CA
votes: 30

Does not matter how you slice it, having two NBA MVPs on one team sprinkled with Defensive Player of the Year/All NBA First Team oh and in addition to that a Three Point Champion... add to the fact the chemistry is great for such individual achievements.

Take Doc's DeLorean and go back to whatever era you want, this team will eviscerate competition.

As much as I'd love to see Draymond wipe his own a** with his nose.


Agent0
CNS MVP X3
Posts: 11308
votes: 95

LAC_12 wrote:
The only reason they were not the best team in history is because KD joined them the year after... and now this team is the best team in history.

If not but staying objective, the 73 win team is objectively the best team in NBA history in the regular season... had Bogut remained healthy (or Green not suspended) they would've capped the most successful regular season with a ring... AND STILL would not have been the best team in history because KD would end up joining them.

I do not know if one can claim the "best team in history" argument... you can't make an argument that is temporal in nature.

All I know is that I was fighting the GSW vs MJ's Bulls arguments for a while... and now I am at a loss for any defense for the dynasty Bulls.

GSW with KD iteration is the greatest team ever assembled.

Even before that finals loss, I can't give a team best team in history when during the playoffs they went down 3-1 to that two man Thunder team, the best team "ever" is not a team that this happens to, not to mention losing 9 playoff games and of course not winning, though other factors played into that.. The 95-96 Bulls for example were 1st in Ortg (higher Ortg than Warriors Ortg), 1st in Drtg, and only lost 4 games in the playoffs. They swept the 60 win Magic who won 60 games with Shaq playing only 54 games, and of course they won it all.

They were very consistent, determined and focused, but just like the 67 win Mavericks in 2007 and the 66 win Cavs in 08-09 were not better than many other teams that won fewer regular season games, the Warriors were also not just a superior team to every other team that won fewer games. They won fewer games last season and as you said, they were better. Take Durant from the Warriors and I would not really favor that Warriors team against this seasons Rockets.


LAC_12
CNS MVP X1
Posts: 3915
Location: NY/CA
votes: 30

Agent0 wrote:
Even before that finals loss, I can't give a team best team in history when during the playoffs they went down 3-1 to that two man Thunder team, the best team "ever" is not a team that this happens to, not to mention losing 9 playoff games and of course not winning, though other factors played into that.. The 95-96 Bulls for example were 1st in Ortg (higher Ortg than Warriors Ortg), 1st in Drtg, and only lost 4 games in the playoffs. They swept the 60 win Magic who won 60 games with Shaq playing only 54 games, and of course they won it all.

They were very consistent, determined and focused, but just like the 67 win Mavericks in 2007 and the 66 win Cavs in 08-09 were not better than many other teams that won fewer regular season games, the Warriors were also not just a superior team to every other team that won fewer games. They won fewer games last season and as you said, they were better. Take Durant from the Warriors and I would not really favor that Warriors team against this seasons Rockets.

72 got a nice ring to it.... AHAHAHAHAAA that still kills me.

But it is all irrelevant, the 73 win team was the most successful regular season team in NBA history, and it added an MVP/2nd best player in the league. It is no contest that this iteration of the GSW is the greatest in NBA history [IMO]


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 7391
votes: 52

See my post about this in another thread. Every one of the old Celtic's starting 5 is HOF and there were 7 from that era. Cousey had 16 assists in one half, still a record and 28 in one game. Bill Russell was arguably one of the five GOAT. He would have destroyed Green. GSW is not in the same universe. They had a HOF coach. The most super super team ever. Using a fudge factor for increase in size for 60 years and play Old School, the Warriors would have been a light snack. KD and Steph would have been beaten half to death. Oscar implied that.

I think to be fair you have to divide teams into eras.HOWEVER MJ and Russell had a discussion about the greatest team. Russell shut MJ up. The Warriors are the greatest in the modern era.

I posted a blurb about Bob Petit who most youngsters have never heard of but was one of the GOAT and one of my favorites.He perfectly describes the difference in eras. He had 150 stitches in his face and for 2 years played wearing a cast which he used as a weapon. Notice the one handed shots.


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