Rumor: Clippers Interested in Kawhi Leonard? (P. 2)

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Mistwell3
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SamMays wrote:
If we part with what it would require to get Leonard, we would be right back to terminal mediocrity. We wouldn't have the money or the picks to put enough around him to make it work. We need to rebuild with youth for another year or two and then make our move to add the big piece of the puzzle, after we have good talent on cheap contracts, so we can afford to add a big name. Boston did it right.
LOLwut? We have ZERO max players right now. We have more money than almost any other team coming. We have....


SamMays
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Mistwell3 wrote:
LOLwut? We have ZERO max players right now. We have more money than almost any other team coming. We have some superb contracts in Williams and Harris and Milos and Harrell and Dekker. We have some good young talent...four of them in fact (Williams, Wallace, Evans, Thornwell).

I seriously think it's kinda nuts to say you don't want one of the top 5 players in the league in exchange for an expiring contract in DJ who is about to walk for nothing, and two lower-mid picks.

Do you honestly think we can get Leonard for that? If you are right, then go get him. I see it as wishful thinking.

I think DJ is leaving, so he won't be part of the package. Bradley is likely also gone, which means Harris will have to go along with those two picks to even make it remotely palatable for SA. The Lakers are talking of sending Lonzo and either Randle or Ingram.

If we move Harris and the two picks, that leaves us a team of Leonard, Austin, Harrell, Lou, Boban, Beverly, Gallinari, Milos, Wesley, Dekker and last year's rookies. The salary number on that crew is over 100-million, right at the cap. That team has no chance of being more than a 7 - 12 in the west and little chance to improve.


Clippers(AUS)
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If Kawhi tells the Spurs that he is not going to sign with them after next season then it’s game on. The Spurs asking price will have to drop or they will end up getting nothing for him when he walks. Look at most of the recent trades teams aren’t giving up a lot anymore because the talent coming through from college is so good. If he wants to leave I could honestly think a package of maybe Gallo,Austin,Wes Deker and our higher pick for Kawhi and Green. I could be way off but I’m just going on similar trades that have taken place this season. If not I’m happy to just see what we get from the draft.


bballman
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Clippers(AUS) wrote:
If Kawhi tells the Spurs that he is not going to sign with them after next season then it’s game on. The Spurs asking price will have to drop or they will end up getting nothing for him when he walks. Look at most of the recent trades teams aren’t giving up a lot anymore because the talent coming through from college is so good. If he wants to leave I could honestly think a package of maybe Gallo,Austin,Wes Deker and our higher pick for Kawhi and Green. I could be way off but I’m just going on similar trades that have taken place this season. If not I’m happy to just see what we get from the draft.
If the Spurs make that deal, R.C. Buford should be taken out and shot. That said, I hope he is that dumb.


SamMays
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Clippers(AUS) wrote:
If Kawhi tells the Spurs that he is not going to sign with them after next season then it’s game on. The Spurs asking price will have to drop or they will end up getting nothing for him when he walks. Look at most of the recent trades teams aren’t giving up a lot anymore because the talent coming through from college is so good. If he wants to leave I could honestly think a package of maybe Gallo,Austin,Wes Deker and our higher pick for Kawhi and Green. I could be way off but I’m just going on similar trades that have taken place this season. If not I’m happy to just see what we get from the draft.

My point is that we need to wait until we have set the table with solid young players on rookie contracts before we consider taking on a max contract. Once you take on a max contract, that's your team. It becomes very hard to improve once you're at the salary cap..

I would say build with young, more picks, let talent develop. Then, when Gallinari's contract comes off the books, we try to get our max player. All of this assumes that we draft and trade well before then so there is a young nucleus that would be a lure to a max player. Think Boston and Philadelphia models.


Mistwell3
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SamMays wrote:
Do you honestly think we can get Leonard for that? If you are right, then go get him. I see it as wishful thinking.

I think DJ is leaving, so he won't be part of the package. Bradley is likely also gone, which means Harris will have to go along with those two picks to even make it remotely palatable for SA. The Lakers are talking of sending Lonzo and either Randle or Ingram.

DJ will be part of the package if its a team he wants to play for. And it's probably a team high on his list. SA cannot pick up free agents, they have to do it in a trade, so this would be his only opportunity to be picked up by SA if that's a team he wants to play for. Not a lot of teams will be bidding for him in free agency due to the extreme shortage of cap space this summer. I do think it's one realistic possibility.

If the Lakers did that trade, then they will be blowing up their team for nothing. Explain to me why Kawhi would want to come to the Lakers if the Lakers are trading their only good young talent just to get him? You think he wants to play with 100% scrubs and that's it? Come on. Kawhi would just walk after his year is done.

Quote:
If we move Harris and the two picks, that leaves us a team of Leonard, Austin, Harrell, Lou, Boban, Beverly, Gallinari, Milos, Wesley, Dekker and last year's rookies. The salary number on that crew is over 100-million, right at the cap. That team has no chance of being more than a 7 - 12 in the west and little chance to improve.

And yet you think Leonard would go to the Lakers who at that point would have what, four players left on their roster, only one of which even looks like he could be a promising starter? LOL.

If Gallo is healthy, and Milos, then that's a very competitive team. Of course those are big Ifs, but I wouldn't bet against Milos, Beverly, Gallo, Leonard, and Harrell. A bench of Willaims, Austin, Dekker, Thornwell, and Wallace is pretty darn good too for a bench.

I think you forget just how close we were to the 3rd or 4th seed this year for most of the year. Swapping a top 5 player in Leonard out for Harris (who is good, but nowhere close to top 5) would be a huge boost.


Clippers(AUS)
Clipper 6th Man
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SamMays wrote:
My point is that we need to wait until we have set the table with solid young players on rookie contracts before we consider taking on a max contract. Once you take on a max contract, that's your team. It becomes very hard to improve once you're at the salary cap..

I would say build with young, more picks, let talent develop. Then, when Gallinari's contract comes off the books, we try to get our max player. All of this assumes that we draft and trade well before then so there is a young nucleus that would be a lure to a max player. Think Boston and Philadelphia models.

The thing is we don’t have a first round pick next yr so that kind of blows up your whole idea. We either need to trade players this yr have picks next yr or with go with a solid trade that we are willing to to pay some decent money to such as Kawhi or PG13 or Lebron just as an example


Clippers(AUS)
Clipper 6th Man
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SamMays wrote:
My point is that we need to wait until we have set the table with solid young players on rookie contracts before we consider taking on a max contract. Once you take on a max contract, that's your team. It becomes very hard to improve once you're at the salary cap..

I would say build with young, more picks, let talent develop. Then, when Gallinari's contract comes off the books, we try to get our max player. All of this assumes that we draft and trade well before then so there is a young nucleus that would be a lure to a max player. Think Boston and Philadelphia models.

The thing is we don’t have a first round pick next yr so that kind of blows up your whole idea. We either need to trade players this yr have picks next yr or with go with a solid trade that we are willing to to pay some decent money to such as Kawhi or PG13 or Lebron just as an example


clipperboy24
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Clippers(AUS) wrote:
The thing is we don’t have a first round pick next yr so that kind of blows up your whole idea. We either need to trade players this yr have picks next yr or with go with a solid trade that we are willing to to pay some decent money to such as Kawhi or PG13 or Lebron just as an example

Yes that’s the biggest problem (thank you Doc). We don’t have he luxury of tanking and then rebuilding through the draft after this year. That’s why I was such an opponent of just tanking and blowing up our roster after the Blake griffin trade. We could have picked up some draft assets or young players and been able to move our contracts.


SamMays
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We have Lou Williams. Perhaps DJ goes in a sign and trade since there isn’t much money out there. It’s about 2020and beyond..


bballman
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Harris and Harrell are probably the only 2 to pay decent money to who are worth keeping. Lou and Beverley are on team friendly contracts. Rookies are not making much. I'd let everyone else go in either trades or just free agency. Going forward, if we can somehow add a superstar like Kawhi to the mix and keep these guys, this would be a very good team. Add in a couple of decent free decent free agent pickups and we have ourselves a contending team.


bballman
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Kawhi and PG both have hinted that the like LA. It would not make sense for the Lakers to get both guys and try for LeBron. That gives the Clips an excellent chance of getting 1 of these guys.


SamMays
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bballman wrote:
Harris and Harrell are probably the only 2 to pay decent money to who are worth keeping. Lou and Beverley are on team friendly contracts. Rookies are not making much. I'd let everyone else go in either trades or just free agency. Going forward, if we can somehow add a superstar like Kawhi to the mix and keep these guys, this would be a very good team. Add in a couple of decent free decent free agent pickups and we have ourselves a contending team.

Yes, but we also have Gallinari for two more years at 20 million. Nobody will take him away. Austin if he opts in. I am just saying that if we get Leonard, given what we would have to give up to get him, this would not be a contending team. The rebuild is not going to be easy. We are going to have to find another way to do it. We just had a max player in CP3 and another one in Griffin. Obviously, Leonard is better than Griffin, but not enough better to team with Gallinari, Milos, Boban, Harrell and whatever else we might have left if Harris and our two first round picks go to bring him in. We would have Leonard, a Gallinari who plays 15 games a year and a bunch of mediocrity... No DJ, no Harris. And, the team would be near the cap and struggle to make any other moves.

21.5 Gallinari

12.6 Rivers (if he opts in)

8.0 Lou

6.3 Milos

6.1 Wesley

9.4 Boban

5.0 Beverly

2.7 Dekker

? Harrell

20.0 Leonard (if not renegotiate)

That's 91-million not counting Harrell who is in for a big raise. Sure, you might be able to move a few of them, but who are you going to get who is better for the same money?

I am just not seeing this contending team you're talking about. I am seeing a team that struggles to win 41 games and doesn't have much maneuverability. And this team has Gallinari, Harrell and Boban to handle both the 4 and 5 spots. With Gallinari's history, that leaves it to Boban and Harrell.

It seems to me that you're counting on losing DJ and Harris from last years roster, adding Leonard and expecting to be much better, while still being capped or close to it.


bballman
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The Leonard trade would only happen if he wanted to play here anyway so that would change the Spurs leverage and be assured of being able to retain him.


Clippers(AUS)
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I don’t think you understand. There is no way the Clippers keep Austin,Wes and even dekker if we were to get Kawhi. They would all be sent to SA in the trade. They are all expiring contracts which would appeal to them. After next yr they would have around 40mil in cap space available from doing this. Obviously a pick and probably another player would also have to go in the trade but we would also then have about 30mil in cap space in 2020 as well to grab another player to put with Someone like Kawhi.


bballman
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Unfortunately, Gallo will play out his contract here. No one will touch that contract.


SamMays
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bballman wrote:
Unfortunately, Gallo will play out his contract here. No one will touch that contract.

So long as Gallo is here, we are stuck. But it's not all bad. The next two years are a perfect opportunity to jettison older players; DJ, Lou, Beverly, Wesley, Milos and bring in whatever picks and younger players we can get for them. Our draft picks this year will have two years under their belt. We will have a few other solid vets like Harris and Harrell... Perhaps Austin (or a replacement for him)... some of this past year's rookie class will be solid NBA guys like Wallace, Thornwell or Evans. Gallinari's contract will come off the books and that will be a perfect opportunity to bring in a max player.


SamMays
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Clippers(AUS) wrote:
I don’t think you understand. There is no way the Clippers keep Austin,Wes and even dekker if we were to get Kawhi. They would all be sent to SA in the trade. They are all expiring contracts which would appeal to them. After next yr they would have around 40mil in cap space available from doing this. Obviously a pick and probably another player would also have to go in the trade but we would also then have about 30mil in cap space in 2020 as well to grab another player to put with Someone like Kawhi.

So San Antonio takes Harris 14.5 million, Austin at 12.5, Wesley at 6.0 and Dekker at 2.5... That's 33 million for Leonard at 20-million. That doesn't work with the cap unless we take back 13 million in unwanted SA players. So basically the trade is Harris and a number one, plus crap, for Leonard and crap? Why not just trade Harris and a # 1 for him? Because SA wouldn't do it. They have Leonard under contract.


Clippers(AUS)
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I didn’t say anything about adding in Harris. What point I was trying to make is that players would get traded so that our salary cap is still in good shape. If we were to get a Kawhi or and super star there would be no need to keep all these other players such as Austin and Wes. I don’t care if we trade them off and only got a 2nd round pick lol


ClipperDodger1214
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Repped High Quality Post

Are we sure we want Kawhi? Even if he wanted to come to the Clippers, why should we bring him here after he quit on one of the model franchises in the NBA and one of the best coaches in NBA history? If he pulled that act in San Antonio, what makes you think he won't do this when he gets tired of his next destination? I think we've seen a revelation of character and I think teams, including the Clippers, need to think twice before pulling the trigger.


laboy
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San Antonio is Pops way or the highway!

Plus pops talking **** to the President.

His wife just died, sad. He is a mess.

The spurs are not a championship team.

He is a California boy and would love to come back.

He would get some say in the new coach.

He would be playing for a great owner, so if he ever wanted to be traded, the owner would trade him.

We can offer them Gallo plus our 2 first round pics for Kawhi. That is fair...???


bballman
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Don't think Gallo can be looked at as an asset to trade. I would imagine you would have attach 2 draft picks for any team just to take him.


Dirtydunks
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laboy wrote:
San Antonio is Pops way or the highway!

Plus pops talking **** to the President.

His wife just died, sad. He is a mess.

The spurs are not a championship team.

He is a California boy and would love to come back.

He would get some say in the new coach.

He would be playing for a great owner, so if he ever wanted to be traded, the owner would trade him.

We can offer them Gallo plus our 2 first round pics for Kawhi. That is fair...???

Pretty right on. Not everyone can deal with pops. As a fan I like the way he has control of his team but not sure he’s every player’s cup of tea.


Dirtydunks
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bballman wrote:
Don't think Gallo can be looked at as an asset to trade. I would imagine you would have attach 2 draft picks for any team just to take him.
We’re not that desperate. Besides when he was healthy he looked really good. We might get lucky.


toohipcliptoslip
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We don't know why Leonard left. Pop is a Spur for life. He's old school. That means the coach runs things not the players and it is not a democracy. An old school coach would have told LBJ to STFU. An old school player would never have opened his mouth. Yes it's Pop's way or the highway but how many rings does he have doing it his way? Mega stars have taken pay cuts just to play for him. ARGUABLY he's the greatest ever. But that has nothing to do with Leonard coming here. He won't and as well we don't know how bad his injury is.

I thought about Davis plus Boogie, a hand full. Every other competitive team has at least two player as all star level. Discounting Lou we don't have anybody who is even close. How do we attract two players like that? We don't. Could DJ guard them? Who can we trade? Tobias. I don't know the rules but Trezz is a RFA. Can we trade a RFA after signing him? We're worried about GSW and HOU but there are other young teams in the wings who will soon depose the kings.


Clemenza
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
We don't know why Leonard left. Pop is a Spur for life. He's old school. That means the coach runs things not the players and it is not a democracy. An old school coach would have told LBJ to STFU. An old school player would never have opened his mouth. Yes it's Pop's way or the highway but how many rings does he have doing it his way? Mega stars have taken pay cuts just to play for him. ARGUABLY he's the greatest ever. But that has nothing to do with Leonard coming here. He won't and as well we....


pageC4
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Clemenza wrote:
I think he had the winning lotto ticket in the trio of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli. Those were "his guys". They were nice guys that formed a bond and took paycuts to keep things together. Especially Duncan who was the centerpiece and foundation of the Spurs mystique..And truthfully it started with David Robinson who was another good team friendly guy. Pop is a great coach but now he's facing a different generation of players. Kawhi was supposed to keep the "model franchise" going, and he did for a while, but now it looks like he's more about what's best....


clipperboy24
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Clemenza wrote:
I think he had the winning lotto ticket in the trio of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli. Those were "his guys". They were nice guys that formed a bond and took paycuts to keep things together. Especially Duncan who was the centerpiece and foundation of the Spurs mystique..And truthfully it started with David Robinson who was another good team friendly guy. Pop is a great coach but now he's facing a different generation of players. Kawhi was supposed to keep the "model franchise" going, and he did for a while, but now it looks like he's more about what's best....


clipfan63
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ClipperDodger1214 wrote:
Are we sure we want Kawhi? Even if he wanted to come to the Clippers, why should we bring him here after he quit on one of the model franchises in the NBA and one of the best coaches in NBA history? If he pulled that act in San Antonio, what makes you think he won't do this when he gets tired of his next destination? I think we've seen a revelation of character and I think teams, including the Clippers, need to think twice before pulling the trigger.
The injury should make us think twice, tendon injuries can be lingering nasty conditions that sometimes don't ever recover completely. We should spend our energy looking for young healthy talent. We've already gambled enough and lost big with injury prone players, we should not continue doing so.


Jerediscool
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Remember when everyone was like “ohhh I don’t know if Durant’s foot will ever heal. He might be done! No way I’d trade Blake for him with that injury.” And now we have Tobi and Bobi and the warriors have more rings. You take kawhi if you get a shot


clipfan63
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Jerediscool wrote:
Remember when everyone was like “ohhh I don’t know if Durant’s foot will ever heal. He might be done! No way I’d trade Blake for him with that injury.” And now we have Tobi and Bobi and the warriors have more rings. You take kawhi if you get a shot
Durant's foot was a bone fracture, broken bones mend, torn tendons do not. Tendon injuries can have much longer lasting effects than bone fractures. Doubt if he ends up going anywhere so it's probably a moot point.


toohipcliptoslip
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I read that he has a tendonopathy, not tendonitis. One of the hallmarks of tendonopathy is that it takes a long time to heal and may cause lasting problems.

Somebody above said this and we are seeing this a lot. It's a generational change and also a change in how the NBA markets themselves. Not too long ago kids called their fathers "Sir" and you accepted authority and shut up. It's a league of LBJ's, Kobe's, Chris Paul's etc meaning their Star power and as such they control things. Before MJ, few of the Great Unwashed knew any players' names. Many mega stars now have commercials in which they really market themselves. LBJ has more marketability that the whole NBA, read power.

Leonard is going nowhere.


clipperboy24
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clipfan63 wrote:
Durant's foot was a bone fracture, broken bones mend, torn tendons do not. Tendon injuries can have much longer lasting effects than bone fractures. Doubt if he ends up going anywhere so it's probably a moot point.

Yeah it’s funny how there is a misconception of broken bones being a long term problem when they usually heal strongest and easiest. Tendons and ligaments are way more fragile and tough to recover from. If we do trade for Kawhi, hopefully we do a good amount of due diligence


sz123456
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clipfan63 wrote:
Durant's foot was a bone fracture, broken bones mend, torn tendons do not. Tendon injuries can have much longer lasting effects than bone fractures. Doubt if he ends up going anywhere so it's probably a moot point.

The Spurs thought he was ready to return to action, and you’d think they’d be pretty conservative with their borderline superstar. He’s already healed. He wants out of San Antonio and he will be traded.


toohipcliptoslip
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Is he able to play but refusing? If so why don't they sue him for Breach of Contract? If that is true, he's gone.


Agent0
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Is he able to play but refusing? If so why don't they sue him for Breach of Contract? If that is true, he's gone.
Spurs aren't trying to get rid of him, top 5 level two way players in the NBA don't come around that often, especially for a team that is basically never in the lottery.


clipper*joe
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Spurs are not trying to get rid of him but if Leonard doesn't want to work with Pop any longer, makes it known he longer wants to be part of the organization. and lets them know he has no intention to sign a new contract, they will trade him. Rumors are rumors but it looks like Leonard wants Pop to change his style of coaching. Some might say that this is how an eventual break-up starts.

Kawhi Leonard May Want Spurs To 'Tweak Some Things'

If Kawhi Leonard and the San Antonio Spurs are able to mend their partnership, there could be some changes to the culture of the franchise.

Leonard has mainly rehabbed away from the Spurs and has been based in New York.

Leonard may want some changes to the way Gregg Popovich conducts practices and other areas.

“Don’t you have to sign him,” asks one rival executive. “From what I understand, he wants (Gregg) Popovich to lighten up a little with practice and tweak some things. The Spurs may not want to change their ways, but this is Kawhi Leonard we’re talking about.”

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/2 ... ome-Things


toohipcliptoslip
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Isn't this the generationaliy changed star driven NBA. I doubt MJ would have pulled this with Jackson. Is his problem hurt feelings? Maybe everybody needs a cleansing breath and align their shakras.


pageC4
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clipper*joe wrote:
Spurs are not trying to get rid of him but if Leonard doesn't want to work with Pop any longer, makes it known he longer wants to be part of the organization. and lets them know he has no intention to sign a new contract, they will trade him. Rumors are rumors but it looks like Leonard wants Pop to change his style of coaching. Some might say that this is how an eventual break-up starts.

Kawhi Leonard May Want Spurs To 'Tweak Some Things'

If Kawhi Leonard and the San Antonio Spurs are able to mend their partnership, there could be some changes to the culture of the franchise.

Leonard has mainly rehabbed away from the Spurs and has been based in New York.

Leonard may want some changes to the way Gregg Popovich conducts practices and other areas.

“Don’t you have to sign him,” asks one rival executive. “From what I understand, he wants (Gregg) Popovich to lighten up a little with practice and tweak some things. The Spurs may not want to change their ways, but this is Kawhi Leonard we’re talking about.”

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/2 ... ome-Things

interesting. I would love to see for once an organization say no to player's demands like this. I don't think it will happen, and in the end teams seem to cave in and give players what they want. But could you imagine the organization saying f##k you we don't change the culture here for anyone...that would be awesome


clipper*joe
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Isn't this the generationaliy changed star driven NBA. I doubt MJ would have pulled this with Jackson. Is his problem hurt feelings? Maybe everybody needs a cleansing breath and align their shakras.

hang on,didn't Michael Jordan help oust Doug Collins before bringing in Phil?


LAC_12
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pageC4 wrote:
interesting. I would love to see for once an organization say no to player's demands like this. I don't think it will happen, and in the end teams seem to cave in and give players what they want. But could you imagine the organization saying f##k you we don't change the culture here for anyone...that would be awesome

agree... and if any organization pulls that off, it's the Spurs.

I wish we can achieve that kind of culture here one day. So much respect for San Antonio.


realbull17
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LA Times writer Bill Simmons predicts Kwahi Leonard to LA Clippers likely. As Leonard's management team want their client to play in a bigger market. They will tell the Spurs this information this summer. 😄


ClipperFaithful
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realbull17 wrote:
LA Times writer Bill Simmons predicts Kwahi Leonard to LA Clippers likely. As Leonard's management team want their client to play in a bigger market. They will tell the Spurs this information this summer. 😄
.

Is there an article? If so could you please post it.

Thanks!


realbull17
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ClipperFaithful wrote:
.

Is there an article? If so could you please post it.

Thanks!

There's no article. It's on Bill Simmons podcast. 😉


bballman
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This would be a dumb trade for the Clippers. That's giving up too much for a player who is great, but with 1 year left and coming off a pretty serious injury.


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