Be Very Optimistic About the Future of This Team!

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Poll
Do you feel like the Clippers future is brighter than originally believed after the Griffin trade?
Yes, I'm more optimistic than I was initially.
90%
 90%  [18]
No. The team still isn't going to be good for years.
10%
 10%  [2]
Total Votes : 20

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Clippersfan86
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I know many here are still attached to the "Big 3" but I have to say I love the direction of this franchise. I'm expecting a Celtics like rebuild where they just hang around a year or two, get a superstar and couple lotto picks added, then blow up. I'm going to tell you how the team needs to move forward (I think they will follow a similar plan). Pray DJ doesn't pick up his player option. If he does (50/50) due to a lack of teams with cap space, you move him immediately. Take a late 1st and some cap, but not much. He will always have a special place in our history, but clearly was mentally checked out 90% of the year (much wasn't his fault). Dump Gallinari at all costs. What a waste of a 1st pick. He's a good player but can't stay healthy at all. Unlikely to get a pick, try to minimize cap you take back. This will be much harder to accomplish than trading DJ. Sign Paul George. Dream fit, he grew up a Clippers fan. He gives the team a go to player, superstar. Won't be cheap and DJ+Gallo gotta go first to make it possible. If this fails try to acquire Kawhi Leonard at any cost. He is rumored to be potentially available. Sign Montrezl Harrell immediately. This guy should be the starting PF next year and you better hope teams don't throw huge money at him. He will be an 18/8 kind of guy next year if he starts. If the Clippers can lock him up for around 10-12 mill a year tops, they did great. Clippers can go over cap to sign him with bird rights. Sign Tyrone Wallace to a reasonable deal such as MLE or slightly less. Unless the team drafts Sexton....


toohipcliptoslip
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What about Austin? DJ is showing his immaturity. He's planing for a contract and he's doging it. I love Treezl but he has to have a mid range game and/or a corner three. I'd prefer Tobias over George. Ty will be a good SG but we need another PG. How is his D? Also, can he shoot from deep? But for less than MLE, maybe.This is the new NBA you have to shoot. Are West and Lawrence cut throat? Maybe not. Depends on who you believe. We still need a 2nd SF.

Keep Lou, Tobias and Trezzl. Maybe Milos. DJ is an afterthought on a good team> He's not Steven Adams. Get a young center.


SamMays
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Because of.the Gallinari deal (he’s going nowhere) we need a three year plan. We won’t be a contender until he is off the books.

Resign Harris and Harrell. Teams that want DJ will hopefully have to do a sign and trade so that we can add a couple young, promising players. If not, let him go.

It will be three years before we are a threat to anyone, so move Lou while his value is at a peak and his contract makes him very attractive. Keep the best of our many young players and picks and hopefully a few will blossom. When Gallinari is off the books and our picks plus Wallace, etc are solid NBA players, then we go into free agency.


clipperboy24
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I am not sold on Montrez, he can be a great spark but his overall rebounding is pretty mediocre and he isn’t the best defender. Outside of that I like the plan


clipperboy24
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
What about Austin? DJ is showing his immaturity. He's planing for a contract and he's doging it. I love Treezl but he has to have a mid range game and/or a corner three. I'd prefer Tobias over George. Ty will be a good SG but we need another PG. How is his D? Also, can he shoot from deep? But for less than MLE, maybe.This is the new NBA you have to shoot. Are West and Lawrence cut throat? Maybe not. Depends on who you believe. We still need a 2nd SF.

Keep Lou, Tobias and Trezzl. Maybe Milos. DJ is an afterthought on a good team> He's not Steven Adams. Get a young center.

Austin we hopefully will never see in a Clippers uniform going forward.

As for Paul George and Tobias they don’t play the same position and can easily play together. PG13 would be the best fit for us, then we can pick up Shai-gilgous in the draft and maybe trade for another decent vet. Going to be an exciting off season


cobra
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Harrel is only good as back up, I like Wallace but his jumpshot is big question mark he needs to work on it,


clipper*joe
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cobra wrote:
Harrel is only good as back up, I like Wallace but his jumpshot is big question mark he needs to work on it,

I agree, his (Ty) shot is a little suspect right now but aside from that, this kid has the tools to be something in this league. Or at the very least, special to us in terms of building for the future. I am pretty sure he can improve his shot.


Shaa-Maan
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There definitely are reasons to be optimistic about this team moving forward. I don't thing we will win a championship in the foreseeable future but there definitely is the potential to be a really good team with this relatively young core we have, if they stay healthy, draft smart and DEVELOP THE RIGHT WAY. I've put that in caps because the team can't make the same mistake they did when DJ and Blake were young guns. Their game was severely underdeveloped from a fundamental standpoint. They were physically imposing bigs who had minimal big man skills. Blake has pretty good guard skills for a big because he used to be a guard in high school or something like that, but it was crystal clear that he lacked moves/craftiness in the post on both ends. DJ simply has no skill at all and now that he's no longer superhuman athletic, he is becoming a non factor. That's why i thing it's critical now that we have Harrell, Wallace, Thornwell, and to some degree Evans and Harris that the team brings in people who can help them out with reaching their full potential. Former players who are respected and had success in the league without relying on super athleticism and were effective later in their careers. A guy like Karl Malone to work with Harrell on craftiness in the post and in the pick and roll, and how to take care of his body to remain effective in his thirties (i understand there is zero chance of Malone even thinking about coming here but you get the point what i'm trying to say i hope), guy like Bruce Bowen to work with Thornwell on being smart defensively and picking his spots on offense, keep Sam Cassell around to help out Evans and Wallace develop....


realbull17
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Well, this season is a lost even if we make the playoffs. In the summer we need to start over starting with the draft. Thank God we have Jerry West. Doc & Austin Rivers needs to go. So far Lawrence Frank hasn't done a good job but another chance is needed. He needs to get it right tho. Injury prone players need to go. Injuries killed our current season. Try to retain DJ but I see him walking. Sign Ty Wallace. Maybe we can find a another gem player in our g-league like Wallace. 😄


jarca
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From what I’m reading getting rid of Doc n Austin will propel us to a better records and perhaps a playoff. If both are gone or maybe Doc is gone anybody want to make a bet the clippers will get more wins/playoff berth?


Clippersfan86
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realbull17 wrote:
Well, this season is a lost even if we make the playoffs. In the summer we need to start over starting with the draft. Thank God we have Jerry West. Doc & Austin Rivers needs to go. So far Lawrence Frank hasn't done a good job but another chance is needed. He needs to get it right tho. Injury prone players need to go. Injuries killed our current season. Try to retain DJ but I see him walking. Sign Ty Wallace. Maybe we can find a another gem player in our g-league like Wallace. 😄

What have Frank+West done wrong? They've actually set us up pretty damn perfectly with the exception of the Gallinari. Signed Lou to an amazingly movable deal, got a great trade for Blake etc as well as the Houston haul.


clipper*joe
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jarca wrote:
From what I’m reading getting rid of Doc n Austin will propel us to a better records and perhaps a playoff. If both are gone or maybe Doc is gone anybody want to make a bet the clippers will get more wins/playoff berth?

Winning a bet proves nothing other than you guessed better than your opponent since we don't know what we end up with if Doc and Austin are gone. We don't know who we're going to draft. We don't know who would replace Doc. What I will say is that for the sake of the future of this team, you have to break up this family affair at all costs. Even if it means we don't end up better in the first year.

I don't see any serious players wanting to come here having to deal with a Dad/son duo. This should have never happened in the first place. You think Paul George would consider coming here considering he dated Doc's daughter? How about a premier SG/PG who would like to come here but won't consider us based on Austin's heavy minutes in both positions. How can you take a team like that serious? Even if you think Austin deserves these minutes, why put yourself in a position you might question after signing? I would not touch that with a 10' pole.


LAC_12
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clipper*joe wrote:
Winning a bet proves nothing other than you guessed better than your opponent since we don't know what we end up with if Doc and Austin are gone. We don't know who we're going to draft. We don't know who would replace Doc. What I will say is that for the sake of the future of this team, you have to break up this family affair at all costs. Even if it means we don't end up better in the first year.

I don't see any serious players wanting to come here having to deal with a Dad/son duo. This should have never happened in the first place. You think Paul George would consider coming here considering he dated Doc's daughter? How about a premier SG/PG who would like to come here but won't consider us based on Austin's heavy minutes in both positions. How can you take a team like that serious? Even if you think Austin deserves these minutes, why put yourself in a position you might question after signing? I would not touch that with a 10' pole.

I can agree with this. But Jarcas point is valid... a lot of people are blowing heat and are not making sense. Doc is performing very well with what he has and is a Championship winning coach. He is the best coach (or most decorated/respected) we have had.

And Austin is playing a lot better than people give him credit for.

That is the point of the bet... which I agree with.

But a father-son dynamic is also detrimental to the team... so something must be changed.


toohipcliptoslip
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clipperboy24 wrote:
Austin we hopefully will never see in a Clippers uniform going forward.

As for Paul George and Tobias they don’t play the same position and can easily play together. PG13 would be the best fit for us, then we can pick up Shai-gilgous in the draft and maybe trade for another decent vet. Going to be an exciting off season

Can't George play #2 and #3? But you're right about the combo. One BIG problem is that we have no leader. Trezl is a steal. When has anybody been totally unstoppable in the post and can create his own shot. As a defender, his arms are long and he has glide in his stride and he is TOUGH. Shooting and D can be taught. He is a star. FG% 0.642. I don't understand +/- but his look good. Ty can score but can he shoot and can he play the tough D that Thornwell does? He guards LeBron. Musically, I love the three B's: Bach, Bird and Brown. Doc said his favorite is JB. Most of these kids barely know who he was. We need a coach who is Hip Hop. He lacks dynamism and is Old School. Doc had to play small but he would have done it anyway, length or not. Milos can start as long as we have length and D elsewhere.

As far as where we will be. You guys are missing the forest for the trees. This is a damned good team as is. We got screwed in multiple ways. What if the team as constructed had a training camp and we weren't injured? We are missing a few pieces form being a holy terror and we have assets to get them. A starting Center,a back up PG and a back up SF.


clipperboy24
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LAC_12 wrote:
I can agree with this. But Jarcas point is valid... a lot of people are blowing heat and are not making sense. Doc is performing very well with what he has and is a Championship winning coach. He is the best coach (or most decorated/respected) we have had.

And Austin is playing a lot better than people give him credit for.

That is the point of the bet... which I agree with.

But a father-son dynamic is also detrimental to the team... so something must be changed.

We went 12 - 8 without Austin in the lineup (60% winning) and we are current 30-28 with him (51% winning). There are a lot of stats that show he is hurting the team more than helping.


jarca
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clipper*joe wrote:
Winning a bet proves nothing other than you guessed better than your opponent since we don't know what we end up with if Doc and Austin are gone. We don't know who we're going to draft. We don't know who would replace Doc. What I will say is that for the sake of the future of this team, you have to break up this family affair at all costs. Even if it means we don't end up better in the first year.

I don't see any serious players wanting to come here having to deal with a Dad/son duo. This should have never happened in the first place. You think Paul George would consider coming here considering he dated Doc's daughter? How about a premier SG/PG who would like to come here but won't consider us based on Austin's heavy minutes in both positions. How can you take a team like that serious? Even if you think Austin deserves these minutes, why put yourself in a position you might question after signing? I would not touch that with a 10' pole.

Well from what I am reading, it should be addition by subtraction right? They're such cancer. Add DJ there too. If he leaves, we should be exponentially better as it opens up more playing time for Harrell and Boban.


jarca
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clipperboy24 wrote:
We went 12 - 8 without Austin in the lineup (60% winning) and we are current 30-28 with him (51% winning). There are a lot of stats that show he is hurting the team more than helping.

So if Austin is gone, should be easy money right? Clippers will have a 60% winning record. 20 bucks? what's 20 bucks just a friendly bet. No one is going broke for 20 bucks


clippers88
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jarca wrote:
From what I’m reading getting rid of Doc n Austin will propel us to a better records and perhaps a playoff. If both are gone or maybe Doc is gone anybody want to make a bet the clippers will get more wins/playoff berth?

It all depends on health. I have to give Doc his due for managing a team with so many injuries this year.


clipperboy24
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jarca wrote:
So if Austin is gone, should be easy money right? Clippers will have a 60% winning record. 20 bucks? what's 20 bucks just a friendly bet. No one is going broke for 20 bucks

You got it man. We will be a 49 win team if they ship out Austin and use his salary for a replacement.


bballman
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clipperboy24 wrote:
We went 12 - 8 without Austin in the lineup (60% winning) and we are current 30-28 with him (51% winning). There are a lot of stats that show he is hurting the team more than helping.
of course, the schedule had nothing to do with it.


toohipcliptoslip
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Doc the best coach? I laugh heartily. Mike Dunleavy LAL lost to Bulls in finals, Coach of the year. Portland, fours straight PO's, WCF's twice. Should have been in WCF with LAC but he and Sam screwed the pooch. We didn't have three HOF guys on the squad like Doc's Big Three. He didn't make PO's next year because of internal problems secondary to starting Q Ross and Livingston and Corey and Sam off the bench. Baron Davis torpedoed him.

We cannot evaluate Austin fairly until he and Doc get a divorce. Austin is asked to do things, for what ever reason, that he should not be doing. Not his fault. What if he were doing what he should be doing?


clipperboy24
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bballman wrote:
of course, the schedule had nothing to do with it.

Our schedule during that time was against 12 playoff teams and 8 non playoff teams.

In the games he played 22 were against non playoff teams and 36 against playoff teams (including Denver). That’s only a 2.5% difference in the amount of playoff teams we played. It wasn’t just some super easy stretch when he was injured.


bballman
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Doc the best coach? I laugh heartily. Mike Dunleavy LAL lost to Bulls in finals, Coach of the year. Portland, fours straight PO's, WCF's twice. Should have been in WCF with LAC but he and Sam screwed the pooch. We didn't have three HOF guys on the squad like Doc's Big Three. He didn't make PO's next year because of internal problems secondary to starting Q Ross and Livingston and Corey and Sam off the bench. Baron Davis torpedoed him.

We cannot evaluate Austin fairly until he and Doc get a divorce. Austin is asked to do things, for what ever reason, that he should not be doing. Not his fault. What if he were doing what he should be doing?

Dunleavy is not the best coach they ever had. Funny that you blame the players when the choice to start Ross over Maggette and Livingston over Sam was Dunleavy's. Anyway, everyone knows that Larry Brown was the best Clippers coach ever.


bballman
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Dunleavy was a much better GM than Doc but not a better coach. Saying that he has been to the finals and using that as part of the debate when Doc has won in the finals is ridiculous.


toohipcliptoslip
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MDSr was coach off the Year. Doc was Coach of the year. Doc won a ring. MDSr lost to the Bulls in the finals. Malone/Stockton in their prime and the Jazz lost to the Bulls. Nobody could have beaten the Bulls, that includes Doc's Celtics. The Celtics got to the NBA Finals once more. MDSr got Portland to the WCF's twice. I'd call that equivalent. MDSr SHOULD have gotten us to the WCF with no superstar. Brand was a second round all star and Sam wasn't a megastar. No Big Anything. Except for 8 seconds (and the boneheaded Raja Bell shot, I'll admit) we should have been there. Doc had a HOFer, a GOD. MDSr got us to the POs for the first time since 1997 and the first series win since 1977.

Do you know who any of these guys were? Vin Baker, EB, Sam, Ewing, Kaman, Korolev, Livingston, Magettee, McCarthy, Mobley, Ndong, Radmanovich, Rebraca, Ross. There is no "God". At best a few minor deities and MDSr made them winners. If not for the blow up, according to Barkley we were dark horses for the WCF next year. As far as the blow up, a team has two choices. First, they can implode. Second they can say "Coach I don't agree SIR but let's give it a try and play hard and re evaluate" It takes two to do the Toxic Tango. Remember MDSr was THE BOSS and it's not a democracy. Larry Brown got us to the PO's twice but out in the first round. We almost made it to the PO's next year. Quite a feat considering we lost something like 15 road games in a row.

We however agree. Get rid of Doc.


SamMays
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Gallinari to miss most of next season too.

I have no support for this statement, but some things you just know.


Clemenza
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I think DJ is opting in and we might not be able to move Gallo until his final year of his deal. We could've had three first rounders this year if not for signing Mr. Glass.

Resign Trez and Wallace, let Doc go, let Avery Bradley walk, and draft well. We're going to be back in the mix in no time imo. I also wonder do we make a play on Kawhi this off season.


LAC_12
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
MDSr was coach off the Year. Doc was Coach of the year. Doc won a ring. MDSr lost to the Bulls in the finals. Malone/Stockton in their prime and the Jazz lost to the Bulls. Nobody could have beaten the Bulls, that includes Doc's Celtics. The Celtics got to the NBA Finals once more. MDSr got Portland to the WCF's twice. I'd call that equivalent.

Yea, but you see... its not.

I never meant to start the who the best coach we've had argument, my post was saying how Doc is overperforming THIS SEASON and he is a highlyu decorated coach. He is, by default, the highest caliber coach we have by way of SUCCESS. He's got a ring. Argue till you are blue (and some arguments I can agree with,) however in the NBA that is a rare feat.

Now since everyone got sidetracked, I'll pour in my 2 cents... He has coached for 2 less years and has accumulated more wins (vs Dunleavy.) Which translates to a higher win percentage. He has consistently lead us to the playoffs, to a point that being in the playoffs was becoming a norm.

He is not even my favorite Clipper coach, but I do recognize some basic facts.

Did he have the most amount of talent to work with? Yes. But that ain't my fault. A track record is a track record. You don't like it, great.

Seems like everybody here has a problem with the elements that made this team successful. I do not mean to say these single elements have been the key to our success... but collectively seems like many people here just hate almost all but one element of what made us such a force the last few years. (ironically the one element they did like turned out to be one of the biggest - ONE OF - hindrances to our success.)

Flame me and these comments all you want... really don't care anymore Very Happy But to bring it back onto track... props 86 for this thread, I am rather optimistic for the future of this team.


LAC_12
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As for the poll... I believe the Clipper future BECAME brighter because of the Griffin trade. Cap space, Harris, and minutes for Trezl (aka working man's Griffin... grit and grind Griffin... the Griffin we wish we had... the true Griffyndor... Griffin 1.5.)

I'd say that is addition by subtraction and substitution and supplementation.


cobra
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Clemenza wrote:
I think DJ is opting in and we might not be able to move Gallo until his final year of his deal. We could've had three first rounders this year if not for signing Mr. Glass.

Resign Trez and Wallace, let Doc go, let Avery Bradley walk, and draft well. We're going to be back in the mix in no time imo. I also wonder do we make a play on Kawhi this off season.

DJ is enjoying with his new teammate I can see it before the start of the game him and Tobias is dancing with Boban.


LAC_12
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cobra wrote:
DJ is enjoying with his new teammate I can see it before the start of the game him and Tobias is dancing with Boban.

Been happening for a few games... he is also very friendly with a lot of other players in the league. I don't know what to think... If he can get his mind right and come back next season I would be cool with it. I don't care what people think about him. I like him. When he is engaged and focused, he is very big for us.


toohipcliptoslip
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LAC_12 wrote:
Yea, but you see... its not.

I never meant to start the who the best coach we've had argument, my post was saying how Doc is overperforming THIS SEASON and he is a highlyu decorated coach. He is, by default, the highest caliber coach we have by way of SUCCESS. He's got a ring. Argue till you are blue (and some arguments I can agree with,) however in the NBA that is a rare feat.

Now since everyone got sidetracked, I'll pour in my 2 cents... He has coached for 2 less years and has accumulated more wins (vs Dunleavy.) Which translates to a higher win percentage. He has consistently lead us to the playoffs, to a point that being in the playoffs was becoming a norm.

He is not even my favorite Clipper coach, but I do recognize some basic facts.

Did he have the most amount of talent to work with? Yes. But that ain't my fault. A track record is a track record. You don't like it, great.

Seems like everybody here has a problem with the elements that made this team successful. I do not mean to say these single elements have been the key to our success... but collectively seems like many people here just hate almost all but one element of what made us such a force the last few years. (ironically the one element they did like turned out to be one of the biggest - ONE OF - hindrances to our success.)

Flame me and these comments all you want... really don't care anymore Very Happy But to bring it back onto track... props 86 for this thread, I am rather optimistic for the future of this team.

I said that Doc should be Coach of the Year, I just don't think he's our future and he screwed up in the past BIG TIME. It wasn't a flame but a response. You have heard me call these guys badasses a million times. How is this not optimistic? I have said that the only team that has our number is Portland and maybe a healthy 2 man HOU. One man Houston??? This is a team that has routinely dug an impossible hole and dug themselves out of it. My friend if I were flaming you, I'm a lot better at it than what I said. A POLITE dialogue such as this is not a flame.


clipperboy24
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LAC_12 wrote:
Yea, but you see... its not.

I never meant to start the who the best coach we've had argument, my post was saying how Doc is overperforming THIS SEASON and he is a highlyu decorated coach. He is, by default, the highest caliber coach we have by way of SUCCESS. He's got a ring. Argue till you are blue (and some arguments I can agree with,) however in the NBA that is a rare feat.

Now since everyone got sidetracked, I'll pour in my 2 cents... He has coached for 2 less years and has accumulated more wins (vs Dunleavy.) Which translates to a higher win percentage. He has consistently lead us to the playoffs, to a point that being in the playoffs was becoming a norm.

He is not even my favorite Clipper coach, but I do recognize some basic facts.

Did he have the most amount of talent to work with? Yes. But that ain't my fault. A track record is a track record. You don't like it, great.

Seems like everybody here has a problem with the elements that made this team successful. I do not mean to say these single elements have been the key to our success... but collectively seems like many people here just hate almost all but one element of what made us such a force the last years. (ironically the one element they did like turned out to be one of the biggest - ONE OF - hindrances to our success.)

Flame me and these comments all you want... really don't care anymore Very Happy But to bring it back onto track... props 86 for this thread, I am rather optimistic for the future of this team.

Honestly though, did he do much better than VDN? We made it to the second round of the playoffs with VDN and he had a 56 win season. I think with Doc people still imagine him turning us to Celtics, he wasn’t the key to that team, they had 3 of the top 25 scorers and MVP vote getters from the previous year on the team. Even Jeff Hornacek would have coached that team to a title


cobra
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clipperboy24 wrote:
Honestly though, did he do much better than VDN? We made it to the second round of the playoffs with VDN and he had a 56 win season. I think with Doc people still imagine him turning us to Celtics, he wasn’t the key to that team, they had 3 of the top 25 scorers and MVP vote getters from the previous year on the team. Even Jeff Hornacek would have coached that team to a title

And VDN last season we have a good 17 winning streak I guess 2012-13. So I would say we were better under VDN, The only good for Doc is his mouth and one and only ring with a prime Garnett, Allen and Pierce.


realbull17
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The next 3 games are highly important wins to determine our fate: LAC @ UTH, DEN @ LAC & NOP @ LAC.

Lakers have a game against the Jazz but those losers probably let Utah win. �'�


jarca
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clipperboy24 wrote:
You got it man. We will be a 49 win team if they ship out Austin and use his salary for a replacement.

Cool we got an Austin Rivers Bet!


clipperboy24
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jarca wrote:
Cool we got an Austin Rivers Bet!

Yep 49 wins or more with no austin!


LAC_12
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
I said that Doc should be Coach of the Year, I just don't think he's our future and he screwed up in the past BIG TIME. It wasn't a flame but a response. You have heard me call these guys badasses a million times. How is this not optimistic? I have said that the only team that has our number is Portland and maybe a healthy 2 man HOU. One man Houston??? This is a team that has routinely dug an impossible hole and dug themselves out of it. My friend if I were flaming you, I'm a lot better at it than what I said. A POLITE dialogue such as this is not a flame.

Not specifically you, and not specifically that comment.

The issue is that these responses keep changing the narrative. We went from Doc has done a good job this season and he is a highly decorated head coach, the response was No he is not the best Clipper head coach, and now we're at is he the best for our future...

Well put simply if he should continue is whether he is up to the task... some coaches are better suited for certain circumstances. So the future of the Clippers head coach, depends on what kind of team we put together.

I was simply pointing out the fact that Doc is no slouch, he is outperforming THIS season (our expectations or potential for the team); yet father son dynamic needs to break - so its either Austin, or him, or both... and quite frankly both are performing rather well.

I think I'd rather see Austin leave and hold on to Doc for a bit more... but not by much.


LAC_12
CNS MVP X1
Posts: 4017
Location: NYC/LA
votes: 31

clipperboy24 wrote:
Honestly though, did he do much better than VDN? We made it to the second round of the playoffs with VDN and he had a 56 win season. I think with Doc people still imagine him turning us to Celtics, he wasn’t the key to that team, they had 3 of the top 25 scorers and MVP vote getters from the previous year on the team. Even Jeff Hornacek would have coached that team to a title

Stop making excuses... he did well because this or that... OBJECTIVELY Doc is the highest percentage winning coach in Clipper history.

So to answer your question... as far as regular season win %... .64 > .56

Is that much better? I would answer with he has done/is doing 8% better. In the NBA, that amounts to 7 games better.

In another measure, we've been a playoff team 4 times (of his 5 years) and VDN has tenured as coach twice (of his 3 years.)

Doc has also lead us to a franchise best 57 win season.

I also want to point out that it is no surprise that he has had the Clipper teams with most talent (or even the squad in Boston.) Even if we say he is an average coach in the NBA, he has performed well this season, and he is not to blame for us not advancing. An argument can be made about the fit, but you cannot argue numbers.


clipperboy24
CNS MVP X2
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LAC_12 wrote:
Stop making excuses... he did well because this or that... OBJECTIVELY Doc is the highest percentage winning coach in Clipper history.

So to answer your question... as far as regular season win %... .64 > .56

Is that much better? I would answer with he has done/is doing 8% better. In the NBA, that amounts to 7 games better.

In another measure, we've been a playoff team 4 times (of his 5 years) and VDN has tenured as coach twice (of his 3 years.)

Doc has also lead us to a franchise best 57 win season.

I also want to point out that it is no surprise that he has had the Clipper teams with most talent (or even the squad in Boston.) Even if we say he is an average coach in the NBA, he has performed well this season, and he is not to blame for us not advancing. An argument can be made about the fit, but you cannot argue numbers.

Sorry man but I think you gotta take a chill pill and look at the facts. Doc only coached when we had CP3, VDN was here with a completely youngster and Z-bo plus other spare parts team his first year. Do you really think he would have had a worse winning % then doc? That’s not excuses that’s just reality. So once CP3 was here avDN and Doc had essentially the same performance. oh My Gosh Doc got us one extra win in one year!!!! Wow you are right such a superior performance, th facts are pretty easy to see unless you refuse to look at them.

As for Doc, look at his crap record with the Celtics before and after the big 3. He had one winning season outside of having the big 3.

In orlando the most games he ever won was 44 and that was once, the other seasons he barely eclipsed .500 and never made it past the 1st round. The east coast was not great then either. And we all know about his 1-10 start to the season and firing.

He just isn’t a great coach


Keatonsays
Clipper All-Star
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Jerry West


clipper*joe
CNS MVP Champion
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clipperboy24 wrote:
Sorry man but I think you gotta take a chill pill and look at the facts. Doc only coached when we had CP3, VDN was here with a completely youngster and Z-bo plus other spare parts team his first year. Do you really think he would have had a worse winning % then doc? That’s not excuses that’s just reality. So once CP3 was here avDN and Doc had essentially the same performance. oh My Gosh Doc got us one extra win in one year!!!! Wow you are right such a superior performance, the facts are pretty easy to see unless you refuse to look at them.

As for Doc, look at his crap record with the Celtics before and after the big 3. He had one winning season outside of having the big 3.

In orlando the most games he ever won was 44 and that was once, the other seasons he barely eclipsed .500 and never made it past the 1st round. The east coast was not great then either. And we all know about his 1-10 start to the season and firing.

He just isn’t a great coach

Nice summary. VDN basically had a raw BG & DJ. Doc knew what we had which is why he would only come here. In the end, he benefited from having a core in their prime with a few years under their belt....and it didn't amount to guano. How many ex-Celtic players did he go after? What was the first thing he tried to do when he got here? If up to him, we would have ended up with Garnettt and Pierce. Thank god the NBA stepped in and put a stop to it. In retrospect, Doc could have hurt this team a lot more than he has.


LAC_12
CNS MVP X1
Posts: 4017
Location: NYC/LA
votes: 31

clipperboy24 wrote:
Sorry man but I think you gotta take a chill pill and look at the facts. Doc only coached when we had CP3, VDN was here with a completely youngster and Z-bo plus other spare parts team his first year. Do you really think he would have had a worse winning % then doc? That’s not excuses that’s just reality. So once CP3 was here avDN and Doc had essentially the same performance. oh My Gosh Doc got us one extra win in one year!!!! Wow you are right such a superior performance, the facts are pretty easy to see unless you refuse to look at them.

As for Doc, look at his crap record with the Celtics before and after the big 3. He had one winning season outside of having the big 3.

In orlando the most games he ever won was 44 and that was once, the other seasons he barely eclipsed .500 and never made it past the 1st round. The east coast was not great then either. And we all know about his 1-10 start to the season and firing.

He just isn't a great coach

Doc has coached this year with no CP3, and for what parts he has, he is over-performing. (fact)

And I already said I don't care about their circumstances, Docs numbers are Doc's numbers with us. VDN's numbers is VDNs numbers with us. Those are facts. Not hypotheticals, not arbitrary weighted averages... just pure numbers to objectively and factually answer your question.

All the statements I made were objective, because I am not that big a fan of Doc.

In fact, I won't even refute that he is a "great" (subjective term) coach. I just stated that in their Clipper tenure, Doc has been more successful than VDN. And Doc is a higly decorated coach even with one ring to VDNs zero.

This thread is about the future of the team, and I would be OK with Doc continuing to coach the team if the father/son duo is split.

Remaining objective and on topic is very difficult, so sorry if I gave the impression that I was not "chill" at any part in my response.


LAC_12
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votes: 31

clipper*joe wrote:
Nice summary. VDN basically had a raw BG & DJ. Doc knew what we had which is why he would only come here. In the end, he benefited from having a core in their prime with a few years under their belt....and it didn't amount to guano. How many ex-Celtic players did he go after? What was the first thing he tried to do when he got here? If up to him, we would have ended up with Garnettt and Pierce. Thank god the NBA stepped in and put a stop to it. In retrospect, Doc could have hurt this team a lot more than he has.

You are confusing Doc as a coach and Doc as a president of Basketball operations... It is a tricky mix of responsibilities, but at the end of the day you have to compare apple and apple.


SamMays
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 5951
votes: 94

GM Doc killed Doc the coach's chances.

Doc has done a really good job this year. The only problem is the perceived nepotism between him and his son. One of them should go for this reason.


toohipcliptoslip
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 7592
votes: 53

There have been politics and personalities in our coaching for decades. MDSr was fired as much for politics than talent. Baron Davis single handedly blew up the team. VDN was not a bad coach but---politics. Doc is here because of politics as much as anything. He's here because CP wanted him, not because he's the best. Many coaches with his record here would have been fired --oops, performance not record. He admitted that he f*cked the first half of the season not playing Aldrich but Josh at center "I am not a good coach" How many coaches would have been fired for something that bone headedly obvious? "I let CP run the offense".BG pick and pop? He spreads the BS like butter --politics. If his name weren't Doc, would he be here


laboy
Clipper Starter
Posts: 896
votes: 10

Doc has 4 games to prove that he is a good coach....

If he can win the next 4 games and get the clippers into the playoffs...

Then I would say he is a good coach..

I never saw any problem with Vinnie..

He had a decent record with D.J. in the doghouse and a young team with lots of pics...

Then The President of Basketball Operations gives away all our young guys and pics...

Its now or ...

YOU ARE FIRED!!!!!!!


clipper*joe
CNS MVP Champion
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Posts: 19982
Location: los angeles
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LAC_12 wrote:
You are confusing Doc as a coach and Doc as a president of Basketball operations... It is a tricky mix of responsibilities, but at the end of the day you have to compare apple and apple.

No, I'm not. You seem to think his coaching and FO responsibilities are mutually exclusive...They're not. He failed as a coach in taking what little success we achieved under the predecessor, and advancing us to compete for a title. His failure was a direct result of the bad moves he made. Think of it this way....He had the opportunity to complete the team he inherited in his coaching vision. He had the power to get the guys he thought would compliment his coaching style. Fact is, he couldn't coach the pieces he picked himself. That's the bottom line. Add insult to injury, he even mortgaged the future to get rid of some of those choices he made. Trying to separate his coaching title with his FO title is purely absurd. In fact,it makes him look much worse when you really think about it. He couldn't get the guys he chose himself to work in his system. Thus,he not only failed as a GM,he failed as a coach because he couldn't make the [pieces he chose, work with the core he inherited.

Hey, I'm just a guy on a message board but make no mistake, there is a long line of players ready to go on record about how Doc really is as a coach.


clipper*joe
CNS MVP Champion
Posts: 19982
Location: los angeles
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votes: 152

SamMays wrote:
GM Doc killed Doc the coach's chances.

Doc has done a really good job this year. The only problem is the perceived nepotism between him and his son. One of them should go for this reason.

Actually, DOC GM had no experience when he took over. So technically,the choices he made as GM were made through the eyes of coach Doc. So if his choices didn't pan out, what does it say about his coaching in general? He made the choices he thought would work in his system. All Doc did as GM was use his best thinking as a coach and made moves that have hindered this team and wasted our window. So, Doc the coach who was playing GM is what killed our chances. Bottom line, Doc made choices he thought would help him see his coaching vision. and he fell flat on his ass.


SamMays
CNS MVP X2
Posts: 5951
votes: 94

Coaching talent is the coach's job. Assembling talent is the GM's job. Doesn't matter what eyes he's looking through. A

The bottom line is that Doc has proven himself good at getting the most out of his teams. This year was exceptional. Given modest talent and adding all the injuries to key players, it's amazing we battled for the playoffs as long as we did and that the team played though the season with relative harmony. It would have been very easy for this team to fall apart, what with DJ looking for the door and the Blake trade and so many young players getting big minutes.

Doc has proven himself a disastrous GM, however. And, fortunately, that title was wisely stripped from him.


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