Jamil Wilson Released!

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clipperboy24
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Can't believe they did this to avoid luxury tax. Wilson looked like a very solid cheap option. They really blew it with this one. Excited to see Tyrone Wallace play but this is a bummer about Wilson. I would think another team signs him and he becomes a rotation player.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clipsn ... c-g-league


Clemenza
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WTF??? Is Doc still in charge?? His last game with the Clipps he drops damn near 20 points in the half then gets waived? Yes he's not a future star or a pillar in the franchise but he was pretty much the type of player we've been looking for to contribute as a starter or off the bench for the past five years or so and for cheap on the dollar.. but now he's waived?? What are we doing as a franchise seriously???


A7XDreamTheaterClipps
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Lawrence Frank is a fraud yes man. Doc has all control of the roster.


Anxioustobebest
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Yeah, I wasn't pleased with this move either, thought he had allot of promise especially being the 2 way player Clippers were needing. He could shoot the 3 ball, he's young and has height, just needed to work on his defense and not be as apprehensive. I'm not fully convinced of CJ Williams, but that's another story.


roflm8123
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Jamil isn't young by any standards, he's 28 years old his only real strength is 3pt shooting, he's an alright defender and can't really create his own shot. Wallace has been balling out in the g league, and deserves this chance imo.


Keatonsays
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I'm pretty sure I preferred Jamil Wilson to CJ Williams, and even more so than either of the Johnsons. I'd really like to get a better understanding of our roster limit situation with these 2 way contracts. We really can't afford to give up contributors for nothing with all these injuries.


Anxioustobebest
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roflm8123 wrote:
Jamil isn't young by any standards, he's 28 years old his only real strength is 3pt shooting, he's an alright defender and can't really create his own shot. Wallace has been balling out in the g league, and deserves this chance imo.
My bad, thought Jamil was like 22-23..,


cobra
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As I said l, we don't really know what the front office thinking. We can keep guessing everyday.


Agent0
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A7XDreamTheaterClipps wrote:
Lawrence Frank is a fraud yes man. Doc has all control of the roster.
The team has like 7 people in the front office including Jerry West who they will listen to when he speaks. If West was in any way adamantly against this move, it wouldn't have happened. This whole any move we like, credit West or anyone else, then anything we don't like, knee-jerk and say "it must be Doc" is kinda of ridiculous.

I liked Wilson, and I agree, it is puzzling that they would choose to go in the direction of waiving him, but with us having only a limited window into what goes into the decision making, it's hard to comment definitively in any way.


Mistwell3
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Should have released Brice instead


Agent0
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roflm8123 wrote:
Jamil isn't young by any standards, he's 28 years old his only real strength is 3pt shooting, he's an alright defender and can't really create his own shot. Wallace has been balling out in the g league, and deserves this chance imo.
Wilson is 27, but yes, neither he or CJ Williams who is also 27 are "young" players, they aren't really guys that are necessarily developing into something greater than they currently are. Wilson did show a superior ability to shoot the outside shot in comparison to Williams, he's not big enough or a good enough rebounder to truly be a PF, even for small ball. Defensively, it was hard to judge who was the better and more versatile perimeter defender. The FO along with the coaching staff might have determined that Williams fits that role better, and that was the determining factor.


Agent0
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Mistwell3 wrote:
Should have released Brice instead
That is a more difficult situation. Releasing Brice would not remove his salary from the roster and that would limit the Clippers ability to take on even the slightest amount more in a trade, or to add any other G-League players or even someone later down the line via buyout. With the Clippers carefully watching that tax line, Brice would need to be moved in a trade where no salary comes back. I can't think of many options except for sending cash to someone. I don't think Brice has shown enough for a team to even give a 2nd round pick for him, but who knows.


bballman
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Agent0 wrote:
The team has like 7 people in the front office including Jerry West who they will listen to when he speaks. If West was in any way adamantly against this move, it wouldn't have happened. This whole any move we like, credit West or anyone else, then anything we don't like, knee-jerk and say "it must be Doc" is kinda of ridiculous.

I liked Wilson, and I agree, it is puzzling that they would choose to go in the direction of waiving him, but with us having only a limited window into what goes into the decision making, it's hard to comment definitively in any way.

kind of like "Lakers" fans when Buss/Kupchak were in charge.


david
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Doh- wonder if there is any chance he can come back with the team if no team signs him?


LA_Clipper818
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We all wish it was Brice but unfortunately that can't happen. CJ is a better defender and has a higher IQ. Sucks to see Wilson go but he was the weakest link from guys we could actually cut without making a Trade.


Clemenza
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roflm8123 wrote:
Jamil isn't young by any standards, he's 28 years old his only real strength is 3pt shooting, he's an alright defender and can't really create his own shot. Wallace has been balling out in the g league, and deserves this chance imo.

So at worst Jamil can't go back down to the G League roster... he has to get waived and scraped all together?? No bull, dude was better than Brice, Wes, Thornwell, Dekker, CJ Williams, and so forth. I even want to say better than Gallo but I'll hold back. Yes Gallo has a bigger name but what has he done career wise seriously? Has he put a team on his back once, has he went ape sh*t in the playoffs once, has he made one all star team once, etc. The Clipps need to have its own Twilight Zone/Black Mirror/Dark episode seriously. Nothing makes sense with this team whatsoever.


Shaa-Maan
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Releasing Jamil obviously sucks.

Yes the team could've converted his contract to a full year deal. They had both a roster spot and salary to do it.

BUT even though they have salary relief for Bev's injury, IT IS NOT A TAX RELIEF. By signing Jamil, the team would have ventured into taxpayer territory and it would've cost the team A LOT more than his minimum salary for the rest of the year. By releasing Jamil and signing Wallace to a two way deal, which DOES NOT count towards the salary cap, they avoided that situation, and filled a need at point guard after the latest Milos injury, so they killed two flies with one hit. The other solution to that problem was try to dump Brice or Wes (or any other player) sign Jamil for the rest of the year AND sign Wallace to a two way deal, but you can't just release a player to get his contract off the books when they are guaranteed. I think the team tried to give them up "for free" in a trade but i don't find hard to imagine that nobody was interested in either one of them. Wes has a player option next year if I'm not mistaken, and Brice seems to be a low character black hole whose G-league number are not impressive.

I do think the team has a plan for him because he sure looks like a keeper. They're probably hoping that no one claims him (in the next two days), then he has to go back to their G league team (they have his rights) and if they find a taker for Wes or Brice later, they'll bring him back. Not an ideal situation, but Depth and the guard position is more important now.


ArtMaggot
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Had to stop by and see all the "Fire and Fury" over this. One second everyone is on their knees for Jerry West, now we are trashing "Doc" for this, can we just admit we have no clue why this was done, the contract details or who pulled the trigger. I dug Jamil and hate to see him go, but we need guard help and maybe the injuries are worse than we are told. In the meantime I will be at the game cheering my Clippers on till the final buzzer.


A7XDreamTheaterClipps
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Agent0 wrote:
The team has like 7 people in the front office including Jerry West who they will listen to when he speaks. If West was in any way adamantly against this move, it wouldn't have happened. This whole any move we like, credit West or anyone else, then anything we don't like, knee-jerk and say "it must be Doc" is kinda of ridiculous.

I liked Wilson, and I agree, it is puzzling that they would choose to go in the direction of waiving him, but with us having only a limited window into what goes into the decision making, it's hard to comment definitively in any way.

I really believe Doc is trying hard to milk out as much time until he can talk management into signing his son to big money, crippling the franchise.


Shaa-Maan
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https://www.sbnation.com/2013/11/21/512 ... cago-bulls

this article from 2013 explains why are teams (not just the clippers) so hesitant to go over the luxury tax for multiple years these days. So doing what the clippers have done with Wilson and Wallace should in no way be considered dumb or shortsighted or some conspiracy masterminded by Glenn Rivers.


Clemenza
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Shaa-Maan wrote:
Releasing Jamil obviously sucks.

I do think the team has a plan for him because he sure looks like a keeper. They're probably hoping that no one claims him (in the next two days), then he has to go back to their G league team (they have his rights) and if they find a taker for Wes or Brice later, they'll bring him back. Not an ideal situation, but Depth and the guard position is more important now.

Guards are easy to come by though. We've needed a SF for how many years now? He's no star but we've needed a 3 & D player like Wilson on this team for years now. Guards guards and more guards. That's all this franchise is about. I'm callin' it- this is going to be Joe Ingles v2.0 all over again.


Mistwell3
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Shaa-Maan wrote:
https://www.sbnation.com/2013/11/21/5126774/nba-luxury-tax-2013 -repeater-chicago-bulls

this article from 2013 explains why are teams (not just the clippers) so hesitant to go over the luxury tax for multiple years these days. So doing what the clippers have done with Wilson and Wallace should in no way be considered dumb or shortsighted or some conspiracy masterminded by Glenn Rivers.

BS. We had other assets we could have dumped instead. We should have traded Brice, along with cash, for a second round pick or existing rights to some euro player who will never come over, for example.


Shaa-Maan
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Mistwell3 wrote:
BS. We had other assets we could have dumped instead. We should have traded Brice, along with cash, for a second round pick or existing rights to some euro player who will never come over, for example.

yes we should have traded brice. I said that a couple of post earlier. But a team has limited amount of cash it can send out in trades and clippers already used most of it when they dumped Liggins or whoever it was. And you really think Brice is worth a second round pick? I highly doubt that Brice (along with Wes) is worth more than a bag of chips around the league.

NBA team usually don't help other teams without getting something out of it. And Brice is simply not interesting enough for any team. That might change before the trade deadline but at this point Brice is a second year late first round pick who failed to show he was worth a draft pick at all.


Anxioustobebest
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Clemenza wrote:
Guards are easy to come by though. We've needed a SF for how many years now? He's no star but we've needed a 3 & D player like Wilson on this team for years now. Guards guards and more guards. That's all this franchise is about. I'm callin' it- this is going to be Joe Ingles v2.0 all over again.
My sentiments exactly, Wilson has talent and I can see a Blazers team or Spurs maybe Warriors signing and developing his skill set.


toohipcliptoslip
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Many if not most of the competitive teams have three max level players. With the new repeater tax, a team like Houston will have $75 mill locked up their their Big Three. Will the value of big stars drop or will the value of lower level role players drop? Something has to give. The value of good drafting and development will of course be critical. Will it prevent stacked teams like GSW? Wouldn't it be nice if there were more parity in the league?

Wouldn't it be nice if they had had this during the Showtime Lakers?


Anxioustobebest
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Word on the streets, Lakers about to sign Jamil on a 10-day after he clears waivers today! Didn't know he worked out for Lakers?


cobra
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Anxioustobebest wrote:
Word on the streets, Lakers about to sign Jamil on a 10-day after he clears waivers today! Didn't know he worked out for Lakers?

Lakers needs 3 points shooter, I guess they scout him last time he hit 5 3s in 17 minutes. Good for him if the Lakers will sign him.


Clemenza
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cobra wrote:
Lakers needs 3 points shooter, I guess they scout him last time he hit 5 3s in 17 minutes. Good for him if the Lakers will sign him.

Its crazy cause we could use a guy like that... oh wait


toohipcliptoslip
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Why in the name of Ryan Gomes did Doc release him? Our only true SF is Wes. Guess what, look for Austin to play SF.


powersurge95
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Clippers should have released Brice instead. Brice never plays for god sakes. Jamil came off a good game with 17 points in 19 minutes. I don't understand the logic in that move. I would say it feels like a Doc move but where is the threat to his son. different positions.


Jerediscool
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You don't understand the move bc you don't understand the salary cap. Why would we want to go into paying the luxury tax and the repeater tax for this years team? It's not going to win. At best we'd be screwing ourselves financially just to get to the playoffs. It wouldn't make sense. Brice's contract is guaranteed so even if we cut him, we still have to pay him. And jamils 45 days on his two way contract were up. Doesn't make sense to pay the tax even as good as jamil was for us.


powersurge95
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"At best we'd be screwing ourselves financially just to get to the playoffs."

So playoffs is not a goal? If the clippers end up in the 5th seed and make a deep run, we're screwing ourselves? I think making the playoff should be the goal, you never know when lucky breaks happen. Making the playoffs might influence another good player to join the team next year. There's no point to being the 9th seed and missing the playoffs and not have a lottery pick. I'm sure ballmer wouldn't lose sleep over a few million. being worth 25+ billion can calm some of those concerns if the goal is to win a championship.


Jerediscool
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You really think this team is going to make a deep playoff run? Being the 5 seed means we're better than either the thunder or the timberlwolves. That won't happen. Being 9th actually is a lottery pick.

And we were over the cap last year so if we do it again we pay the repeater tax, and then would still have to pay repeater next year and every year we go over. So it's not just a couple million.

It's easy to not like decisions you don't understand.


Keatonsays
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powersurge95 wrote:
Clippers should have released Brice instead. Brice never plays for god sakes. Jamil came off a good game with 17 points in 19 minutes. I don't understand the logic in that move. I would say it feels like a Doc move but where is the threat to his son. different positions.

Doc doesn't have a say in who the team adds anymore.. This move was all Jerry lol


Agent0
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A7XDreamTheaterClipps wrote:
I really believe Doc is trying hard to milk out as much time until he can talk management into signing his son to big money, crippling the franchise.
Don't really know why you would think Doc has any ability to do this.

For the people who aren't understanding the repeater tax issue. It's not even so much about this season, it's also about future seasons. The Clippers this season aren't a contender, but if the team is somehow in position able to be a contender next season and have to go fairly well into luxury, they don't want to be paying repeater tax because they went a couple hundred thousand over the tax this year. I think people seem to forget that it's also a business. Sure if you aren't the one paying the money, it's easy to dismiss it, but paying things like a luxury tax for no practical reason is bad business.

It's the same when we start talking about "blowing it up" and tanking. People forget that the Clippers are in a battle for fans, the Clippers don't have the pedigree to afford just tanking for seasons. They are trying to build and develop a fan base, not just of "hardcore" fans who are on forums, but of everyday fans, and blowing it up and tanking is not a method of doing that.

There are both basketball and business reasons related to moves that are made.


toohipcliptoslip
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Several million is not chump change.You don't make money by blowing money. Check the $$ on repeaters. It will feel like your balls when you jump in cold water. As far as hard core fans both we and LAL will keep them. We both have lost glitz but LAL is worse than we are. LAL now sucks hind t*t. Only "hard core fans" still watch. The LAL are losing their brand recognition in LA. It's been how many years since they didn't smell of farts? It's up for grabs. As long as LAL is worse that we are we're....


clipper*joe
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Agent0
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Quote:
but we got Evans and CJ and Montrezz and Willie. How much of a better core bench do you want?�

Well...i wouldn't really consider any of those players "Core" players unless the goal is the lottery, so I would definitely want a much, much better core. Willie is also on a short contract and looking for a better pay day this off-season.


clippyclip
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Hahaha, what??? Seems like a pretty weird reason not to sign the guy.

"After planning to sign Jamil Wilson to a 10-day contract, the Los Angeles Lakers changed course and won't complete a deal with the free agent forward, league sources told ESPN. The Lakers reneged on the deal Wednesday after a TMZ report surfaced that a woman has filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles County Superior Court alleging that she contracted a sexually transmitted disease from Wilson while dating him."

http://hoopshype.com/storyline/jamil-wi ... ee-agency/


Agent0
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Lol, maybe they are worried he will have to miss time dealing with the lawsuit or something, otherwise I don't really understand why that would be a reason to not sign a guy.


Clemenza
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Agent0 wrote:
Don't really know why you would think Doc has any ability to do this.

It's the same when we start talking about "blowing it up" and tanking. People forget that the Clippers are in a battle for fans, the Clippers don't have the pedigree to afford just tanking for seasons. They are trying to build and develop a fan base, not just of "hardcore" fans who are on forums, but of everyday fans, and blowing it up and tanking is not a method of doing that.

There are both basketball and business reasons related to moves that are made.

True but the tank would only be for the rest of this season not for multiple years like Philly or even the Lakers did.


LAC_12
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While the same people will say the same things and tie releasing J Wilson to their own agendas (I know I am one of those lunatics.)

But now that the dust has settled, we can cool off? Maybe even say, good choice?

Or at least understand it?

Anyways, I'm cool with it. #movingon


Agent0
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Since CJ Wallace is actually good, this is no longer a Doc move, and it is actually a Jerry West move Smile.


Jerediscool
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Agent0 wrote:
Since CJ Wallace is actually good, this is no longer a Doc move, and it is actually a Jerry West move :).

Yeah Wallace is working out so it was definitely a jerry west move! Doc never would have don't that haha


Clemenza
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But both CJ WIlliams and Tyrone Wallace are on 2-way contracts as well. So is everybody cool with both of them being released after their 45 days are up? If we haven't traded/released Brice or Wes Johnson by then they'll both face the same fate as Jamil Wilson


Keatonsays
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LAC_12 wrote:
While the same people will say the same things and tie releasing J Wilson to their own agendas (I know I am one of those lunatics.)

But now that the dust has settled, we can cool off? Maybe even say, good choice?

Or at least understand it?

Anyways, I'm cool with it. #movingon

I think the big take away from all of this is that our Scouting has been tremendous, Our G-League team is invaluable, and Doc is doing a fantastic job of working with what he's given. It's been incredibly impressive to basically plug n play guys all season and win games no matter what. Doc will undoubtedly be COTY if the trend continues.


LAC_12
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Keatonsays wrote:
I think the big take away from all of this is that our Scouting has been tremendous, Our G-League team is invaluable, and Doc is doing a fantastic job of working with what he's given. It's been incredibly impressive to basically plug n play guys all season and win games no matter what. Doc will undoubtedly be COTY if the trend continues.

I am uplifted by your positivity, I really am, thanks for that. And I really do hope that the trend not only continues, but gets hotter! Only time will tell.

We also need to understand that we, as a fan-base (or a sample size thereof), are arguing to trade away "what he's been given". Some of us anyway (seems like less and less people by the day actually.)


Mistwell3
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We do not have to release players on 45 day contracts at the end of their contract. We have the option of sending them back down to the G-League. And then if we do trade someone like Willie or Brice to free up some cash, we can move them back onto the team and sign them for the remainder of the season.

I think the only reason we released one instead of sending him back down to the G-League is the team decided even if they freed up money, they still didn't want him on the team long term due to the position he played. So they figured might as well let him go play somewhere else instead of locking him up in our G-League for no reason.


Clemenza
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Mistwell3 wrote:
We do not have to release players on 45 day contracts at the end of their contract. We have the option of sending them back down to the G-League. And then if we do trade someone like Willie or Brice to free up some cash, we can move them back onto the team and sign them for the remainder of the season.

I think the only reason we released one instead of sending him back down to the G-League is the team decided even if they freed up money, they still didn't want him on the team long term due to the position he played. So they figured might as well let him go play somewhere else instead of locking him up in our G-League for no reason.

Still doesn't make sense being that we've needed a 3 & D SF like Jamil for like 7 years now. I think the ruling is that once their 45 days are up they can go back down to the G- League team but technically they're free agents. I think this is what happened with Jamil. He went back down to Clippers-Caliente but the Lakers called and he was free to join them. They didn't sign him but that's another story. League might have to tweak this 2-way contract situation a little more imo.


Mistwell3
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It's in this article: https://www.clipsnation.com/2018/1/10/16876120/breaking-down-the-clipp ers-options-with-c-j-williams-nba-g-league-two-way- Send Him Back to Agua Caliente This option is probably the last appealing to C.J., and it presents some problems for the Clippers as well, but it's a safe way to keep him within the organization. When a player hits their 45-day limit, the team is not obligated to either convert or release them. Instead, the Clippers can just choose to not call C.J. up again for the rest of the season, and have him serve the remainder of his two-way contract with the Agua Caliente Clippers of Ontario. This is kind of a lame outcome for C.J., who would probably be able to land a shot with another NBA team relatively quickly if he became a free agent, but it's allowed within the parameters of the contract he signed with the Clippers. And for the Clippers, it would mean continuing to use a two-way contract slot on a deal that has very little NBA utility, as they wouldn't be able to bring him up for any more days. However, there's one upside: the Clippers could retain control of C.J. so that he could join the team later on this season. He would play the night of the 15th against the Rockets, and the morning of the 16th re-join ACCO indefinitely. If at any point between now and the trade deadline, the Clippers happen to make a move that gives them additional room underneath the luxury tax line, they could then convert C.J.'s two-way deal to a rest-of-season deal, putting him on the 15-man roster and making him available for the rest of the season. At that point, they would not be able to re-use that two-way contract slot this season. Even if the Clippers don't make a trade, they'd still be able to get C.J. back eventually. With the $120,000....


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