DeAndre Jordan Trade Rumors (P. 12)

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LAC_12
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clipper*joe wrote:
Remember, he is also the only starter that can't create or make baskets outside the paint. That's the flipside of that coin. No doubt he deserves praise for staying healthy but DJ did miss time this season and we did just fine. While it's good we have a very healthy player, wish he was more well-rounded so he could pick up the slack when our offensive players are out. If your 20+ million dollar player can't get the ball down low and throw in a basket without losing it, being stolen, or fumbling out of bounds, what is....


LAC_12
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Clippers(AUS) wrote:
Let the Man walk I say. Yes I know we will go backwards for a while but like I said there are some great Centres in this years draft with better skill set than him. They may not be as athletic as DJ but they will command someone to guard them somewhat and hopefully open the floor more for Harris, Lou, Gallo and even Austin lol. Take next yr on the chin and clear cap space and target Kawhi the following yr. It’s time to look forward and not backwards. I still think they should have moved him to either Wizards or Bucks

One can argue that we can just find better (with high percentage 3pt shooting) players to surround DJ... like a traditional center. Why should our center be creating space inside for our PF? Our issue was we had BG and DJ. With no BG, I can see a roster shakeup of a better shooting PF and F.

Also DJ is suffering from a slew of different point guards that don't play well with DJ (Lou connects with DJ the most, and the usage rate is low.)

Having said that, he is still extremely offensively limited. But for what he lacks in offense he makes up for in athleticism, health and defense.

Some people think that his offense is lacking so much that it doesn't merit to keep him at certain dollar amounts. Depending on that dollar amount I agree and disagree.


Clippers(AUS)
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Yes I agree with you on some point but in no way does he make up for his lack of offense with his Defense. His D has dropped dramatically this past 2 seasons. He is getting caught out of position a lot more and tends to switch on and off during games. I really like DJ but for what we are paying him as for what we get out of him!!!!! The numbers just don’t match. I would rather have someone like McGee on a minimum contract who is just as athletic and can do all the same things DJ can and on 10x less money.


pageC4
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Clippers(AUS) wrote:
Yes I agree with you on some point but in no way does he make up for his lack of offense with his Defense. His D has dropped dramatically this past 2 seasons. He is getting caught out of position a lot more and tends to switch on and off during games. I really like DJ but for what we are paying him as for what we get out of him!!!!! The numbers just don’t match. I would rather have someone like McGee on a minimum contract who is just as athletic and can do all the same things DJ can and on 10x less money.
Well, it's like Joe said, Montrezl is playing better than DJ is many respects, and when you factor in the cost Montrezl will command versus what DJ is asking for there's no question. By signing Montrezl at a decent rate and using the remainder of our funds on other needs our team will be better. Singing DJ at his current salary is just a bad move on our part. I honestly believe that West's value of him is right about what he truly deserves, and DJ isn't happy. In DJ's mind he deserves max money


JudahDub
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The league plays 2 guards and 3 forwards now anyways. The centers are the equivalent of punters in the NFL. We just need to get the ball during jumpball then essentially, they become a liability guarding the wings. The games evolve. The centers of the future is evolving. True centers have a time limit and DJ should understand that.


toohipcliptoslip
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Is Trezl a center of the future if he gets a shot?


clipper*joe
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Great read. Exactly what I have been saying.

Wave of star big men form axis for new age of center play

All-around skills, 3-point shooting these stars possess meshes perfectly with today's NBA

"The players have changed, not the game. The big men aren’t going away, they’re just getting better."

Houston Rockets coach Mike D'Antoni

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/02/13/n ... is-clint#/


jarca
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Is Trezl a center of the future if he gets a shot?

He’s a power forward.


SamMays
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jarca wrote:
He’s a power forward.

What's a center? What's a power forward? Does it matter? He's been primarily backing up DJ at center. You are wherever they stick you.


powersurge95
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I'm afraid DeAndre has one foot out the door. He mentioned that he wants to play for a franchise that wants him. The fact that he was involved in trade rumors hurt his little feelings. When asked if he felt wanted here in LA he answered I don't know. I think DeAndre will play his heart out the rest of the year because it's in his best interest if he opts out but I feel that this will probably be his last year as a Clipper. I rooted for him and he's been one of my favorite players. I think he won't get the max money that he wants and eventually sign with a contender for much less. He'll pass it off as I just want to win. I hope I'm wrong, would love to have him back at a discounted price or maybe he just opts in and cashes his 24 mil.


LAC_12
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powersurge95 wrote:
I'm afraid DeAndre has one foot out the door. He mentioned that he wants to play for a franchise that wants him. The fact that he was involved in trade rumors hurt his little feelings. When asked if he felt wanted here in LA he answered I don't know. I think DeAndre will play his heart out the rest of the year because it's in his best interest if he opts out but I feel that this will probably be his last year as a Clipper. I rooted for him and he's been one of my favorite players. I think he won't get the max money that he wants and eventually sign with a contender for much less. He'll pass it off as I just want to win. I hope I'm wrong, would love to have him back at a discounted price or maybe he just opts in and cashes his 24 mil.

this. like 100%.


cashdld
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powersurge95 wrote:
I'm afraid DeAndre has one foot out the door. He mentioned that he wants to play for a franchise that wants him. The fact that he was involved in trade rumors hurt his little feelings. When asked if he felt wanted here in LA he answered I don't know. I think DeAndre will play his heart out the rest of the year because it's in his best interest if he opts out but I feel that this will probably be his last year as a Clipper. I rooted for him and he's been one of my favorite players. I think he won't get the max money that he wants and eventually sign with a contender for much less. He'll pass it off as I just want to win. I hope I'm wrong, would love to have him back at a discounted price or maybe he just opts in and cashes his 24 mil.
honestly its not like Dj is gonna have a lot of options this summer especially with the type of contract he's asking for, clippers organization knows this giving them negotiation power via sign and trade thus getting something back for him, not many teams will have cap room this summer that need DJ


toohipcliptoslip
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SamMays wrote:
What's a center? What's a power forward? Does it matter? He's been primarily backing up DJ at center. You are wherever they stick you.

I hope they stick him on Draymond.


toohipcliptoslip
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A lot of this is posturing and pouting. He has an agent and I hope his agent is good enough to explain the reality of the situation. On a contending team he's sucking hind boob slightly above an irrelevance, no fortune no fame. Pretend you're the towel boy sniffing some star's ---.. To get paid big bucks means going to the Vancouver Grizzlies or a team a little bit better. He can't have Hollywood glitz, money and have his tummy rubbed at the same time.

But on the other hand, what do we do for a center.


SamMays
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The first part of the GM's job is to get with the coaching staff and figure out an identity for the team. Who do we want to be? You would base that around who are the players on your roster that best exemplify your identity that you want to keep going forward and build around. For Golden State it was Klay and Curry. A fast team that plays freely like D'Antoni's Suns. Spread the floor, take a lot of threes. To go with that you figure you need a few more shooters, just so teams can't key too much on Klay and Curry and then a banger who will hold down the middle and rebound (Andrew Bogut) and off you go, adding facilitators and defenders to go with your crew, making sure almost everyone can shoot it a bit. What is it for us? As I look at it, we have flexibility and depth. Is it, we're going to play 10 guys to keep people fresh while we, run, defend and outhustle everyone? Have a lot of good players, but no superstar offensively? Makes sense. DJ seems to fit that mold pretty well, unless you want to go a bit smaller and have a center who can shoot, so the offense is more spread and the team is harder to defend. But it starts with a GM who consults with the coach and says, who are we going to be? Then you build it as best you can. Who plays really hard? In the model above, you pick up tough, hard nosed players who are there to win above all else. Sacrifice a bit on talent if you have to (not too much) and stay away from slackers or cancers or guys who play for themselves (Jamal) or for fun or....


clipfan63
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Being a rebounder is "sexy".not in a penile way. He has a great personality and a great smile. He doesn't get technicals. His personality makes you forget his faults. Imagine a beautiful girl whose chest measurements are greater than her IQ. Many people who kind of know the game snooze on Duncan.

As far as commercials, wouldn't you live to see him in a commercial with Danny Trejo?

Actually his almost superhuman Ironman like health is a big plus too, especially for a team that's been as injury riddled as us.


LAC_12
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clipfan63 wrote:
Actually his almost superhuman Ironman like health is a big plus too, especially for a team that's been as injury riddled as us.

Again... yes.

All of the above.

But how much is the entire package worth?

I do not know what our model is for the coming seasons, but if we are not going to bring in all-star talent (which is wasting one fo the biggest perks we have, being a team in Los Angeles) then we can STRUCTURE to pay DJ heavy money up front and then increasingly smaller portions for subsequent years (or just... a decreasing amount.) It will give us star power in the present (or maybe not star, but it will keep us solid.) It will allow for a future signing of a big name.

Again this is all hypothetical. I think he is done with us.


clipper*joe
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Clippers' Refusal To Take Iman Shumpert Was Sticking Point In DeAndre Jordan Trade

Koby Altman received permission from Dan Gilbert for the Cleveland Cavaliers to trade Jae Crowder, Channing Frye, Iman Shumpert and Cleveland's 2018 first round pick to the Los Angeles Clippers for DeAndre Jordan.

The Clippers were willing to accept that trade if the Cavaliers found a third team for Shumpert and the $21 million remaining on his contract while also helping them get a center back.

Altman and Michael Winger made calls to try to find a third team.

Winger asked if he could communicate with Shumpert about a potential buyout, but Altman wanted the talks to be more advanced before granting that permission.

Altman had discussed a Jordan trade with Lawrence Frank and Winger for weeks but they were difficult to make progress on because the Clippers wouldn't take Tristan Thompson, JR Smith or Shumpert.

The Cavaliers ultimately traded Shumpert in a three-way trade with the Kings and Jazz that netted them George Hill and Rodney Hood.

https://basketball.realgm.com/


toohipcliptoslip
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If LBJ stays then DJ is a Cav? Could DJ be a Laker?


bballman
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That would have been a horrible trade.


ClipperFaithful
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Shows Jerry is in charge and not Doc. Glad we didn't take on any bad contracts, even if it means he walks.


clipperboy24
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clipper*joe wrote:
Clippers' Refusal To Take Iman Shumpert Was Sticking Point In DeAndre Jordan Trade

Koby Altman received permission from Dan Gilbert for the Cleveland Cavaliers to trade Jae Crowder, Channing Frye, Iman Shumpert and Cleveland's 2018 first round pick to the Los Angeles Clippers for DeAndre Jordan.

The Clippers were willing to accept that trade if the Cavaliers found a third team for Shumpert and the $21 million remaining on his contract while also helping them get a center back.

Altman and Michael Winger made calls to try to find a third team.

Winger asked if he could communicate with Shumpert about a potential buyout, but Altman wanted the talks to be more advanced before granting that permission.

Altman had discussed a Jordan trade with Lawrence Frank and Winger for weeks but they were difficult to make progress on because the Clippers wouldn't take Tristan Thompson, JR Smith or Shumpert.

The Cavaliers ultimately traded Shumpert in a three-way trade with the Kings and Jazz that netted them George Hill and Rodney Hood.

https://basketball.realgm.com/

The 1st rounder would have been nice but Shumpert dead weight $10mm next year would have been tough to have. It all depends on how we use our money this summer.


LAC_12
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bballman wrote:
That would have been a horrible trade.

that would have been bad... i agree. Glad things worked out the way they did.


LA_Clipper818
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Anyone else worried that Harrel is a restricted free agent this summer as well. He’s going to get a hefty contract, and not sure we will match it. We should do he’s been super consistent. Would be devastating to lose DJ and Harrel.


LAC_12
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LA_Clipper818 wrote:
Anyone else worried that Harrel is a restricted free agent this summer as well. He’s going to get a hefty contract, and not sure we will match it. We should do he’s been super consistent. Would be devastating to lose DJ and Harrel.

I don't see if the argument changes here than in DJ's case. From what I believe is the office operation and board members opinion... Do not overpay players. We want team friendly contracts to maintain our flexibility.

Again no idea what we are planning on doing with that "flexibility" but if it doesn't net us a better player than DJ, I am not interested. If we are not going to "overpay" DJ, I think we should be consistent and not "overpay" Trezl. Love they guy and his play, but again... up to a certain dollar amount.


toohipcliptoslip
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The question is really how much is Trezl worth. A lot. He's one of the few guys we've had who has a mean streak. Lob City was light weight. W can't lose him and DJ. He and Lou are the most impactful guys on the squad. There is no guy on the squad I want to get rid of except maybe DJ which means other teams will want them (Maybe not Wes). If Trezl develops a mid range jumper, he starts at PF. Who is our starting center if DJ leaves?


laboy
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Boban, Boban!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


cobra
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
The question is really how much is Trezl worth. A lot. He's one of the few guys we've had who has a mean streak. Lob City was light weight. W can't lose him and DJ. He and Lou are the most impactful guys on the squad. There is no guy on the squad I want to get rid of except maybe DJ which means other teams will want them (Maybe not Wes). If Trezl develops a mid range jumper, he starts at PF. Who is our starting center if DJ leaves?

I would say let’s sign Javale McGee, he doesn’t demand the ball tall athletic and cheap. If Jerry will offer him the starting spot I’m sure he’ll come here. The draft is loaded not sure if Bamba still available until our pick but if he is still there he is good one to develop. Boban is tall but he is very slow.


Dirtydunks
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
The question is really how much is Trezl worth. A lot. He's one of the few guys we've had who has a mean streak. Lob City was light weight. W can't lose him and DJ. He and Lou are the most impactful guys on the squad. There is no guy on the squad I want to get rid of except maybe DJ which means other teams will want them (Maybe not Wes). If Trezl develops a mid range jumper, he starts at PF. Who is our starting center if DJ leaves?
Hah...DJ is one guy we should try and keep. Of course Trez also.


ClipperPostman
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LA_Clipper818 wrote:
Anyone else worried that Harrel is a restricted free agent this summer as well. He’s going to get a hefty contract, and not sure we will match it. We should do he’s been super consistent. Would be devastating to lose DJ and Harrel.

I think Faried helped us in that regard. Teams will be hesitant to give energy PFs with dreads big contracts based on one year of play.


clipfan63
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
If LBJ stays then DJ is a Cav? Could DJ be a Laker?
Lakers aren't interested in DJ, they think that they're getting PG and possibly LeBron.


toohipcliptoslip
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I wasn't serious about LAL. LBJ will stay.

I had an epiphany,

DJ is the best mediocre center that too much money can buy.


clipper*joe
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clipfan63 wrote:
Lakers aren't interested in DJ, they think that they're getting PG and possibly LeBron.

That was before they traded away players to make room for those slots. They might have shot themselves in the foot again. By making the cavs better, there is a higher chance LBJ stays...Thanks to the lakers.


bballman
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clipper*joe wrote:
That was before they traded away players to make room for those slots. They might have shot themselves in the foot again. By making the cavs better, there is a higher chance LBJ stays...Thanks to the lakers.
Lakers are dumb. They could have traded the same guys last year and gotten PG but they did not want to give up assets for him. They didn't realize that they

would have to trade those guys anyway to make room to sign him. They now have the risk of PG re-signing in OKC or somewhere else.


ClipperPostman
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bballman wrote:
Lakers are dumb. They could have traded the same guys last year and gotten PG but they did not want to give up assets for him. They didn't realize that they

would have to trade those guys anyway to make room to sign him. They now have the risk of PG re-signing in OKC or somewhere else.

Not sure Indiana wanted Larry nance and Clarkson for PG.


bballman
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ClipperPostman wrote:
Not sure Indiana wanted Larry nance and Clarkson for PG.
t Lakers could have mixed and matched a few of there young players. Didn't have to be Nance and Clarkson. Those are the guys Cleveland asked for. Could have been Randle and Clarkson. Could have been Randle and Nance. Could have been Nance, Randle and Clarkson.Bottom line is that the Lakers did not not want to trade for him because they wanted to sign him in free agency and not give up anything.


pageC4
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clipper*joe wrote:
That was before they traded away players to make room for those slots. They might have shot themselves in the foot again. By making the cavs better, there is a higher chance LBJ stays...Thanks to the lakers.
lol, I love the delusions of grandeur over there. They think Lonzo is magic Johnson 2 and that lebron wants to come her too


Mistwell3
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LA_Clipper818 wrote:
Anyone else worried that Harrel is a restricted free agent this summer as well. He’s going to get a hefty contract, and not sure we will match it. We should do he’s been super consistent. Would be devastating to lose DJ and Harrel.

Almost nobody both has cap space, and wants to spend it, on a guy like Harrell. for this Summer. Agents are calling this the Summer of Hell because of so many tight budgets for teams this Summer. I am not worried. He won't get more than the MLE in an offer, and I doubt it's even a max MLE offer. My guess is he gets a Lou Williams deal from us, and takes it.


toohipcliptoslip
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I'm one of Deandre's worst critics as far as his offense but then I noticed something. Much of his problem isn't his fault. He usually deals with broken plays and other people's Fups. How many times has he been in the paint minding his own business and much to his surprise he has a ball in his hands from out of nowhere?. He's surround bu a bunch of 200 lb behemoths to the point that it's like a crowded elevator and the ball has been shoved into his chest. He has no room to work. He doesn't have room to pass so he gets stripped. Yes he misses some bunnies but he's in a crowd and has to respond on instinct. He gets passes around his knees. When a big bends over, he gets stripped. He obviously has practiced. How about setting a couple of screens and give him some space and let him try in the same way you would with another player. A little give and go. When he's the roll man give him the ball and let him pass. He's a confidence player. I was really wrong about his FT shooting. Now he's confident


LAC_12
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
I'm one of Deandre's worst critics as far as his offense but then I noticed something. Much of his problem isn't his fault. He usually deals with broken plays and other people's Fups. How many times has he been in the paint minding his own business and much to his surprise he has a ball in his hands from out of nowhere?. He's surround bu a bunch of 200 lb behemoths to the point that it's like a crowded elevator and the ball has been shoved into his chest. He has no room to work. He doesn't have room to pass so he gets stripped. Yes he misses some bunnies but he's in a crowd and has to respond on instinct. He gets passes around his knees. When a big bends over, he gets stripped. He obviously has practiced. How about setting a couple of screens and give him some space and let him try in the same way you would with another player. A little give and go. When he's the roll man give him the ball and let him pass. He's a confidence player. I was really wrong about his FT shooting. Now he's confident

You've been on here a while so I can throw some stats at you from older players...

Our bigs have averaged 2+ turnovers...

EB averaged roughly 2.4 turnovers as a Clipper

Chris Kaman roughly 2.3 turnovers as a Clipper

Blake Griffin roughly 3.0 turnovers this season

Even Trezl is avging 0.8 turnovers in limited minutes

DJ is averaging 1.3 over his career and 1.7 this season. Yes, this season he is averaging more than his career... but I do not see him averaging so many turnovers as previous bigs. And Lou is at 2.9.

I understand there are factors that contribute to Turnovers Per Game, like amount a player handles the ball (unfair to compare Lou - primary ball handler.) Maybe even minutes played (15.4 for Trezl vs DJs 32.2.)

But these are numbers to think about... All this talk of him getting stripped, I just do not see it that much. Not at an alarming rate.


clipperboy24
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LAC_12 wrote:
You've been on here a while so I can throw some stats at you from older players...

Our bigs have averaged 2+ turnovers...

EB averaged roughly 2.4 turnovers as a Clipper

Chris Kaman roughly 2.3 turnovers as a Clipper

Blake Griffin roughly 3.0 turnovers this season

Even Trezl is avging 0.8 turnovers in limited minutes

DJ is averaging 1.3 over his career and 1.7 this season. Yes, this season he is averaging more than his career... but I do not see him averaging so many turnovers as previous bigs. And Lou is at 2.9.

I understand there are factors that contribute to Turnovers Per Game, like amount a player handles the ball (unfair to compare Lou - primary ball handler.) Maybe even minutes played (15.4 for Trezl vs DJs 32.2.)

But these are numbers to think about... All this talk of him getting stripped, I just do not see it that much. Not at an alarming rate.

The only problem with your stats, all those players would be given the ball in the post or high post and they could would offense which leaves you much more turnover prone, that’s not something DJ does, and when he does try it... it usually leads to quite a few turnovers and isn’t very pretty.


LAC_12
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You've got to have the ball to earn a turnover... that is a basic and inherit fact.

If you're statement is that the others were given the ball at a higher rate, I understand that point.

Maybe a better stat to look at is point to turnover rate, or more appropriately fga to turnover rate.

AND I would dip into that, if the final product would not conclude that DJ still averages one to two turnovers a game. Which is a rather small number...

If I had never watched DJ's game and saw all these posts about his game, and then watched a Clipper game, I would not correlate the comments to his game.

The man is attempting 7 FGs and bringing in 12 points for 1-2 turnovers a game (one block a game, if anyone cares to balance the two numbers.)


bballman
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I think arguing that DJ is not a good player is a lost cause. He is a good player. Question is the amount of money he should be paid. He is no where near the amount he wants to be paid.


clipper*joe
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bballman wrote:
I think arguing that DJ is not a good player is a lost cause. He is a good player. Question is the amount of money he should be paid. He is no where near the amount he wants to be paid.

I think this is pretty much the truth in a nutshell.


LAC_12
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bballman wrote:
I think arguing that DJ is not a good player is a lost cause. He is a good player. Question is the amount of money he should be paid. He is no where near the amount he wants to be paid.

yea I can get down with that (even though there are still flickers of unreasonable DJ comments.) repped for a comment that summarizes this ENTIRE thread!


pageC4
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bballman wrote:
I think arguing that DJ is not a good player is a lost cause. He is a good player. Question is the amount of money he should be paid. He is no where near the amount he wants to be paid.
None of it matters really. One of the biggest problems is that the quality of a player is subjective. Someone can argue that DJ is an "elite" or "great" player based on his high FG% and rebounding, yet others might say that his lack of offensive game should keep him out of that category and knock him down to a tier below. We saw this endless argument with Chris Paul as well, and honestly it all comes down to criteria. What do you value? We clearly see a HUGE difference in opinion when it comes to DJ because we all value different things.

Also, the tier system of:

Great

Good

Average

Below average

Bad

is not agreed upon. What separates players that are great from those that are good? This is also another long debate.


cobra
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http://www.latimes.com/business/realest ... story.html

DJs house is already in the market for sale. I guess he is already preparing for his exit after this season.


pageC4
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cobra wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/hot-property/la-fi-h otprop-deandre-jordan-malibu-home-20180222-story.html

DJs house is already in the market for sale. I guess he is already preparing for his exit after this season.

makes me wish we had found a trade for him 😤


toohipcliptoslip
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We will all be sorry to see him go but it's time to start this team with new faces. I just think that he won't fit the new team at his price. Jerry knows that. It's time to make the Big Three era a fond memory. I don't know how much he's worth on the FA market but probably less than he thinks but I hope he gets max. Let's hope Trezzl works on his jumper.


Clemenza
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I not to sure about him leaving. He's been playing at an all star level since the trade deadline passed.


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