DeAndre Jordan Extension Talks With Clippers Stall

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clipper*joe
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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/2 ... pers-Stall


clipper*joe
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Also, :

Clippers, Rockets Discussed DeAndre Jordan For Clint Capela At Trade Deadline

The Los Angeles Clippers held semiserious trade talks at last year's deadline with the Houston Rockets on a DeAndre Jordan deal.

The trade would have sent Jordan to the Rockets for Clint Capela, picks and players.

Jordan will be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the current season. Capela will be a restricted free agent in 2018.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/2 ... e-Deadline


pageC4
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Deandre Jordan should be traded. There's no way we should be paying a players more than $20 million a year to score around 9 points per game. To boot, his defense is not as great as people think. He pads his defensive stats with blocks but his man to man coverage is not that great. We need to not make this mistake again with DJ and trade him this time around. The CP3 trade already proved that losing a star isn't necessarily a bad thing if you get the right deal.


Keatonsays
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Barely earning the money he's making now. Love him but not for a dollar more than what we're already paying. Potential money vs. Earned money are 2 HUGELY different things at this point in his career. Can't over pay for a non-appreciating talent.


ClipperPostman
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pageC4 wrote:
Deandre Jordan should be traded. There's no way we should be paying a players more than $20 million a year to score around 9 points per game. To boot, his defense is not as great as people think. He pads his defensive stats with blocks but his man to man coverage is not that great. We need to not make this mistake again with DJ and trade him this time around. The CP3 trade already proved that losing a star isn't necessarily a bad thing if you get the right deal.

Actually Djs defense is great and so is his rebounding. Which is why clippers are currently #1 in defense. Let's not start downplaying the impact of Dj on this team.

With that being said no way in hell I'm giving Dj $30-$35 mill per year.

If he thinks he is worth that he has lost his mind.

$20-$25 mill per year is a great deal for a defensive star with not much offensive capability.


Snafu
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When you've traded away so many future picks then trading DJ would be a good way to restock the team. Dunno if Jerry could get a good haul like we got for CP3.


pageC4
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Snafu wrote:
When you've traded away so many future picks then trading DJ would be a good way to restock the team. Dunno if Jerry could get a good haul like we got for CP3.
Yeah, getting an exact trade like the CP3 once might be hard to pull off twice, but I think a 1st rounder along with other pieces should suffice. There's no way we will get another eight player return plus a pick. Still, if anyone can pull off a good trade, then it's Jerry.


CLIPSET
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Trade him or extend him now. Last 2 times he hit free agency, he signed elsewhere.


pageC4
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Sign Willie Reed on the cheap. Use most of the money that would have gone to DJ on another free agent.


cobra
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Repped High Quality Post

If you are worth 20 million you should be an all around player.


david
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Well, it has stalled, but it doesn't mean it won't happen. Hopefully DJ will be willing to give a "hometown" discount so the team can be more flexible going forward.


cisco805
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I say no to this deal. I have said it over and over DJ is not much of an offensive threat. Has and will never develop as a offensive player. His defense is okay he rebounds but on one on one occasions he stumbles. I say West should see who he can get on a trade which would include Austin Rivers too.


cobra
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I have a feeling that DJ will be traded next year, with him there's is no way we can move forward. We need to keep rebuilding get a younger player, and fire Doc, for the fast years Doc is wasting our pick and collect all ex-Celtics player. This is the time for a change.


Agent0
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cisco805 wrote:
I say no to this deal. I have said it over and over DJ is not much of an offensive threat. Has and will never develop as a offensive player. His defense is okay he rebounds but on one on one occasions he stumbles. I say West should see who he can get on a trade which would include Austin Rivers too.
This was last season, won't be on the table anymore with Capela looking like he can shoot FT's now. Capela is still smaller and not as athletic, but he does have better ball skills. He is a better scorer as he can do more creating on his own from 1-2 dribbles. He does eurosteps and such.


Agent0
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cobra wrote:
If you are worth 20 million you should be an all around player.
$20 million is the new $10 million though, all-around player not required


toohipcliptoslip
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cobra wrote:
If you are worth 20 million you should be an all around player.

How much was Ben Wallace worth?


DairoQ-
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Find a new coach is the number one priority.


Keatonsays
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
How much was Ben Wallace worth?

16mil is the most he ever made for a single season as a 4x DPOY. That man would average 3+ blocks and almost 2 steals a game while pulling down 12+ rebounds per. DJ is nowhere near that level of productivity or defensive presence. He could be, but he's too inconsistent, and it's too late in his career to be paying him for "potential".


Agent0
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Keatonsays wrote:
16mil is the most he ever made for a single season as a 4x DPOY. That man would average 3+ blocks and almost 2 steals a game while pulling down 12+ rebounds per. DJ is nowhere near that level of productivity or defensive presence. He could be, but he's too inconsistent, and it's too late in his career to be paying him for "potential".
Can't make direct salary comparisons to a different salary cap. The salary cap right now is double what it was when Ben was playing. His $16 million would be like him making $30-35 million now or even a little more.


Onetime
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I would love to see DJ stay and retire as Clippers...that being said I can't see paying anything over a 4 year 96mil contract with last year as a team option.


Keatonsays
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Agent0 wrote:
Can't make direct salary comparisons to a different salary cap. The salary cap right now is double what it was when Ben was playing. His $16 million would be like him making $30-35 million now or even a little more.

That's actually my point. Ben Wallace might actually be worth the $30-$35 million in today's market based on his accolades and performance. DJ doesn't come anywhere near close to Wallace in terms of defensive dominance. DJ is the better offensive player of the 2, but not enough to make up for his inconsistency on defense.

DJ might be good for a 4yr-$100mil contract. Anything more than that would be a gross overpayment that would potentially cripple our cap flexibility long-term, along with a very high likelihood that we'll end up needing to move that contract at some point which would render the whole point in bringing DJ back at all, pointless.


clipperharry
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jerry west needs to package a deal with DJ /wesley johnson and go get a young impack player


jarca
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Keatonsays wrote:
That's actually my point. Ben Wallace might actually be worth the $30-$35 million in today's market based on his accolades and performance. DJ doesn't come anywhere near close to Wallace in terms of defensive dominance. DJ is the better offensive player of the 2, but not enough to make up for his inconsistency on defense.

DJ might be good for a 4yr-$100mil contract. Anything more than that would be a gross overpayment that would potentially cripple our cap flexibility long-term, along with a very high likelihood that we'll end up needing to move that contract at some point which would render the whole point in bringing DJ back at all, pointless.

Ben got those accomplishment because he was in a winning team and his lack of game offensively and defensively were masked by great defenders in the team such as Rip, Rasheed, Billups, and and Tayshaun. Team was loaded defensively 1-5. On the bench they had Asik and Campbell who was still productive. Players didn't have an easy path to the basket. What happened when he played in Chicago? he got exposed and some even considered him to be too small. Keep in mind that DJ played/plays with defensive liabilities his entire career in Blake, Butler, Dudley, Redick, Old Chauncy, Pierce, Willie Green etc They were always undersized and out lengthed. He was pretty much at times except for CP was committed in the defensive end.


Agent0
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Keatonsays wrote:
That's actually my point. Ben Wallace might actually be worth the $30-$35 million in today's market based on his accolades and performance. DJ doesn't come anywhere near close to Wallace in terms of defensive dominance. DJ is the better offensive player of the 2, but not enough to make up for his inconsistency on defense.

DJ might be good for a 4yr-$100mil contract. Anything more than that would be a gross overpayment that would potentially cripple our cap flexibility long-term, along with a very high likelihood that we'll end up needing to move that contract at some point which would render the whole point in bringing DJ back at all, pointless.

Oh okay. I tend to agree, DJ is probably accurately a $25-26M per year player in this league. He could likely squeeze out more too if he really tried. For the Clippers it's obviously a question of how much he is worth to LAC, not how much he is worth in a general sense.


Keatonsays
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jarca wrote:
Ben got those accomplishment because he was in a winning team and his lack of game offensively and defensively were masked by great defenders in the team such as Rip, Rasheed, Billups, and and Tayshaun. Team was loaded defensively 1-5. On the bench they had Asik and Campbell who was still productive. Players didn't have an easy path to the basket. What happened when he played in Chicago? he got exposed and some even considered him to be too small. Keep in mind that DJ played/plays with defensive liabilities his entire career in Blake, Butler, Dudley, Redick, Old Chauncy, Pierce, Willie Green etc They were always undersized and out lengthed. He was pretty much at times except for CP was committed in the defensive end.

True for the most part, but Wallace was able to win his first DPOY before Sheed, Billups, and Hamilton got there, playing in the same era as all-time defensive greats like Garnett, Camby and Mutumbo. DJ still has time to establish himself as an all-time defensive great (he should be able to prolong his career with his size and athleticism) but if your Wallace example shows us anything, it's that you don't want to overpay for a 1 dimensional player that can easily be exposed when circumstances aren't in his favor.


Agent0
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Also certainly don't want to do it when they are undersized with an athleticism based game and are 32 years old. Ben Wallace averaged 11 rpg, 1.4 spg and 2.0 bpg, and the Bulls were #1 in Ortg in 06-07, swept the first round 4-0 vs Miami and pushed the Pistons to 6. By the next season, they were still paying $15 million for a now 33 year old, undersized, defense only player who was a terrible finisher.


ClipperPostman
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Hard to compare players from different eras. Would Ben Wallace be as dominant in today's nba where big men are stretching the floor, handling the rock, and all together a different pace.

I don't know maybe, but it's a big difference guarding KAT and A big man from 15 years ago.


Agent0
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ClipperPostman wrote:
Hard to compare players from different eras. Would Ben Wallace be as dominant in today's nba where big men are stretching the floor, handling the rock, and all together a different pace.

I don't know maybe, but it's a big difference guarding KAT and A big man from 15 years ago.

Ben Wallace wouldn't be any less dominant in what he does though, which is defense, he was very mobile and could switch and guard all over, so this era doesn't change that. The defensive big man was not phased out by this era, it is the below average/mediocre inefficient back to the basket big man that has been phased out in terms of usage and importance. The big difference between Ben and DJ in terms of longevity is that DJ is much bigger and can actually finish. Ben was a freak athlete, which was what allowed him to survive at his height, but when that faded away, he was still okay, but combined with poor finishing, etc, it wasn't enough to be playing a 33+ year old Ben a lot of minutes. DJ is even still 5 more seasons (including this one) from that stage of his career, so he might have that decline too by the time he is 33 years old.


ClipperFaithful
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Not surprised talks stalled without an agent.


TheDude
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same old story though. Let him walk and our salary situation doesn't allow us to replace him. Either need to trade at the deadline, max him out or we gonna lose him for nothing.

sidenote: I weaseled my way into the locker room hallway after the Utah game. Met a bunch of the players on both teams in passing but DJ took the time to talk to my friend and I and took a pic with us. he was coolest out of all the Clips players.


Roj
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TheDude wrote:
same old story though. Let him walk and our salary situation doesn't allow us to replace him. Either need to trade at the deadline, max him out or we gonna lose him for nothing.

sidenote: I weaseled my way into the locker room hallway after the Utah game. Met a bunch of the players on both teams in passing but DJ took the time to talk to my friend and I and took a pic with us. he was coolest out of all the Clips players.

That's nice. He's always seemed like a good guy.


toohipcliptoslip
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We will keep DJ. Harrell is 6'8" and Reed is 6'10" and neither have offensive skills read - they can't shoot. They don't rebound as well as DJ. Our rebounding isn't that great. If Balmer would keep CP and BG, he'll keep DJ.


pageC4
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
We will keep DJ. Harrell is 6'8" and Reed is 6'10" and neither have offensive skills read - they can't shoot. They don't rebound as well as DJ. Our rebounding isn't that great. If Balmer would keep CP and BG, he'll keep DJ.
I'm not sure what Ballmer will choose to do, as this is his money. However, I think out of all the positions the center seems to be the least impactful position. It seems that perimeter shooting and tough wing defenders have been the recent way to win. Of course, if a center with once-in-a-generation talent comes along, say someone who could do what Shaquille O'Neal did then you build around him, but there isn't anyone close to that type of center today, and the centers that fit in the tier right below that are ones who play for other teams. That being said it would be unwise for us to dump so much money in a player that plays a position that is slowly becoming less important in today's league. And as stated by someone else $20 million or more a year should be reserved for players that play two-way ball. This was my concern with even resigning Blake, that's just too much money to pay a better version of Amare Stoudemire, and it puts the defensive load on others to pick up. We ought to be wise and trade DJ, sign Willie Reed at a more favorable contract, and offer that money to a better overall player than DJ.


toohipcliptoslip
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Willie is 6'10" and is DJ "Lite.". He has little offense but more than DJ and he's around 50%+ FT shooter and can't rebound as well. He's a good bench guy. I never said that keeping DJ was a great idea, I'm saying that Ballmer might do it. He was determined to keep our "Big Three" intact when t was obvious they were going nowhere. I'm glad to see CP gone. It's insane to challenge GSW. I've said the NBA should give them a ring opening day and compete for second place. The goal is to have a good team as they decline. DJ has no ability to score in the paint and can't spread the floor. He can't bully some of these skinny guys because he doesn't have the skills..

I like Bowen. In a couple of years he'll be good. He provides more technical info than Smith. He said something interesting. He said that the f*cking 3 pt shot was adopted in 1979-80 and it took years to adapt. It was thought of as a novelty. The young guys like Curry cut their teeth on it and practiced long ball shooting in diapers and it will be a game of 3 pointers. Now the league is tall guys who can shoot at distance. Klay or Durant or the Greek guy are SF' or SGs. Guys like Leonard have so many skills and could play Old School but he can hit a three. Even M Gasol can shoot. Then you have Adams or Bogut who are not max players but can bang and aren't expected to score. In three years when there is a window of opportunity as GWS fades, we may have dinosaurs. However BG is trying to adapt.


pageC4
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toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Willie is 6'10" and is DJ "Lite.". He has little offense but more than DJ and he's around 50%+ FT shooter and can't rebound as well. He's a good bench guy. I never said that keeping DJ was a great idea, I'm saying that Ballmer might do it. He was determined to keep our "Big Three" intact when t was obvious they were going nowhere. I'm glad to see CP gone. It's insane to challenge GSW. I've said the NBA should give them a ring opening day and compete for second place. The goal is to have a good team as they decline. DJ has no ability to score in the paint and can't spread the floor. He can't bully some of these skinny guys because he doesn't have the skills..

I like Bowen. In a couple of years he'll be good. He provides more technical info than Smith. He said something interesting. He said that the f*cking 3 pt shot was adopted in 1979-80 and it took years to adapt. It was thought of as a novelty. The young guys like Curry cut their teeth on it and practiced long ball shooting in diapers and it will be a game of 3 pointers. Now the league is tall guys who can shoot at distance. Klay or Durant or the Greek guy are SF' or SGs. Guys like Leonard have so many skills and could play Old School but he can hit a three. Even M Gasol can shoot. Then you have Adams or Bogut who are not max players but can bang and aren't expected to score. In three years when there is a window of opportunity as GWS fades, we may have dinosaurs. However BG is trying to adapt.

All true points. Although this team is solid considering the circumstances, my hope was that the Clippers would choose to rebuild and wait out the GSW dynasty. Hopefully, West has his eyes on the future and not simply to field an early exit playoff team. I'm starting to look at some teams whose decision to draft is finally paying off. The 76ers look to be set up really nice for the future and that's considering that Fultz suffered an injury. Simmons and Embid look like two real decent players to build around.


LAC_12
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Just my 2 cents... pay the guy.


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